Lessons Learned From The Rev. Dad

The following program is sponsored by evangelical life ministries.

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Welcome to engaging truth. This is Dave Schultz, your host for tonight's, uh, wonderful program on father's day of all things. Our whole emphasis for the month of June has to do with fathers and sons in ministry together, not in the same place, but within the same church, um, which is stretches across the country and across the world. So welcome to Ken henings and his two sons, Paul and Luke. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you. I'm gonna begin the, the questioning because I think we got a lot of things to go through with father Ken, Ken, what brought you into ministry? The Lord

Did. And, uh, it happened through a unique situation that took place over a years. And before I really committed to going into training and studying through college for the ministry, I kind of had my own wrestling with, and I've been

Well, Paul, what brought you into ministry?

Yeah, well, I thanks for having me and, uh, I didn't want to be in the ministry to be Frank. Uh, when I was in high school coming outta high school, I went to college for engineering, but it was in an experience in college where I felt like God was saying, no, this is what I actually want you to do. And so, um, so that I kind of had a little bit of a roundabout way of getting to the mid history, but that was my

Experience. And once, and once you had the taste of what it might look like looking at your dad as the example, uh, that was the convincing thing of the holy spirit, huh?

Uh, well, yeah, no, I . Yeah, my, I, I will say this, our dad has been a great example in ministry, so I know we'll have time to talk a little bit more about that, but certainly was, uh, an example for both, for both of us.

Luke, how about you? What brought you into ministry?

Uh, yeah. Thanks, David. Uh, thanks for having us on the show, uh, today. Um, yeah, I, I grew up as, uh, when I was younger. I did think about going into the ministry, but I, uh, was way too shy to do that. I felt, and so kind of ruled that out. I was pretty good in math. So I was, I was thinking about something in, in that, uh, vein, uh, but it was really, um, a high school mission trip to Tijuana that I was a part of and, um, through encouraging from some, some of the adult leaders on that trip. And then some of the experience in, uh, in leading a few Bible studies and things like that, uh, kind of, uh, convinced me that yes, uh, God was leading me to become a pastor. So I didn't know of really had a, a super clear aha you know, voice from God, uh, speaking from the sky. Uh, but over time was, was kind of led towards that. And that mission trip was a key part of that

For both Paul and Luke, the question, what one thing did you learn from your dad that you can't freak yet? Go

Ahead, Luke. You're the younger brother. Yeah, absolutely.

Of course. , um, boy, that's hard. It's I would say it's hard to, uh, to, to identify just one thing when you're growing up as a pastor's kid. Um, I think the whole experience of, of being exposed to, to just church life from that view. Um, I think that our, our dad, I, I think dad, you would agree with this, our, our dad, uh, tried to, uh, make sure that there were some things that we weren't aware of many things that we weren't aware of about the church operations. Uh, but I would say I, I loved the, the churches that we were part of. I loved church as a child that, uh, my dad was the pastor of, and it, I would say that embedded in me at just a general appreciation for, uh, church and what church can be and for Jesus and the gospel, I think it all got started there. So I don't, you know, there were, uh, my dad could tell you how many times I've called him to ask him now about questions in the ministry, but growing up, I would just say it was a general model of, of a positive experience in Jesus focused ministry. Paul.

Yeah, I would, I would agree with all that. I'd probably also add, uh, just our dad's ability to handle the stress and the, the, the problems of ministry. I mean, people's lives are messy. And, uh, I think in a lot of ways, that was one of the reasons why I didn't want to be in ministries because people's lives are messy. And, and we saw that, uh, as, as kids, I, I had a little bit more time since I'm older than Luke seeing that at, at St. Paul Luther church in Fort worth, Texas. And it was a great, great church, but just ministry you, you get into people's lives. And I think I, I, part of that was, uh, seeing that, seeing our dad being able to really share grace in people's lives. And so when I did feel called to the ministry, that was one of the things I thought, wow. Th there's a great example of what it means to be a, a good pastor.

This is meant for any one of you who wants to answer it, give me a time or situation that something that started out difficult and hard turned out right later on. Well, I'll

Start David, because I was called to be a social pastor at St. Paul Luther church in Fort worth, Texas. And four months later, the senior pastor Jerry OTTI died leaving me in a challenging situation. And, uh, but God was there. And he, through the working of that congregation called me to be their senior pastor, which I'm not sure that I was ready for, but he surrounded me with support people that truly, you know, walked alongside of me, prayed for me and encouraged me. And, um, it was a wonderful experience, but it didn't start that way. Anybody

Else have a situation that started out bad or difficult, but ended up good.

Paul? I would say, yeah, I would say the same thing. It's ironic. I, I think that Luke and I, I, uh, probably have some of the same stories as our dad, as far as the beginning of our ministries, 10, 10 months into my ministry. I was an associate pastor at church and the senior pastor, uh, basically had to leave for, um, imoral lifestyle broken lifestyle. And that was a, that was a major issue. And, uh, all of a sudden, you know, you, you're the only guy there and you, you have to figure out how to, to put all the pieces back together, but God does tremendous things. And you, you, you learn to rely on God, uh, in those moments. So I would say that was a challenge that became something really, um, um, changed by the Lord,

Luke, you got a comment to make on that.

Uh, yeah, it, it is actually kind of interesting, as Paul said, we do have some similar stories here. I, I agree with my dad and with my brother that when I first became a senior pastor of a congregation, I, I too was also, uh, looking around going, am I, am I ready for this? And, um, and that there, there were some difficult realities in that, uh, whole, whole situation and transition, but God was good. And, um, he's, he's blessed. Uh, he's blessed me, um, with a, a lot of great support and wonderful faithful leaders around me and, uh, including my dad and other people who have supported. So, uh, yeah, that interesting. So a difficult time, yes. That I believe God, uh, used and, and brought up, brought around something. Wonderful. Give

Me a joyful time in ministry. That also is something that you can't forget. Paul, do you wanna go

First? I can go first. Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I, my most joyful times are when, when I, when I watch people and their faith just explodes. Right. You know, they, they just, I don't, you know, some people describe it as a light bulb. It just goes off and, and they see, you know, by, by the holy spirit, their faith, just all of a sudden, um, is renewed. I think that's the best part of, of ministry. Um, probably second to that is watching whole families be baptized. Uh, I've I've, I've had that opportunity a few times, and that's just amazing. It's amazing to see that God is doing the things of Pentecost since we just celebrated that, uh, these, these very days. And, um, so tho those are the things that I always take the greatest joy in, uh, seeing people and their faith, their faith grow.

I have to agree with you that I, long years in ministry, I never would've realized this because it wasn't something my dad told me, but, uh, the joy of seeing a changed heart in the face of people who have been touched by the majesty of, of God's grace and Jesus, and it's something that you really can't put into words, it's something that you see and it S in your heart and mind, um, anybody else have a comment on this, um, Luke to you?

Yeah. I'll, I'll, uh, speak to this. Yes. Um, you know, I, I became a pastor largely because I really wanted more people to, to, to know about Jesus and believe in him as, as Paul just spoke to, to see kind of their faith, uh, grow and build, especially when it's new faith. Um, and so those are always encouraging moments when you, when you do get to see that we here at St. Luke's in Mesa, Arizona recently partnered with a nonprofit organization that helps families, uh, transition out of homelessness and get back on their feet. Uh, and they, they do, uh, uh, some of their work, a lot of their work actually on our campus. And so, uh, recently, uh, we were able to see one of the families join us for worship. And, uh, so that was, that was amazing. Uh, it was amazing to hear from, uh, the, the mom telling me that, uh, this, this church and this, this service and what we were doing, there was exactly what she needed in her life right there. It was amazing to receive a number of different, um, hand drawn notes from, uh, from some of the kids, uh, to, to me. And so, you know, you have moments like that, which, uh, they're just, they're just wonderfully encouraging and, uh, beautiful thing.

Praise president, Ken, I'll call you president because that's how I came to know you. Um, you have had many different hats that you have worn in ministry parish, pastor, um, missions, director for the district now, president of the district, and many other things. What, what, one thing brings you sense of joy as you've dealt with all these situations in your brothers out in ministry?

I think the one sense, very real strong, uh, understanding of the truth is that God is the one is the head of his church. And from my position as mission exec and from president of a district, I have seen that truth played out in the lives of many congregations and the lives of many church workers, um, to, to seek God, come into a situation and bring his peace and his presence and his power. It just excites me to be able to see that, and I, I can stand back and just, I mean, I stand in a of, of what he's able to do. I've been able to see that from, from a different position than just a local pastor. And, um, God is God, and he is real. And he, his love is very powerful.

President. Ken, you have seen a lot of ministry, not only from the parish side, but from the, the side of a, of a director within the, within the Senate itself. Um, how have things changed for the better, or maybe how have things changed that have really brought a lot of hurt to, to the church itself over the years that you have been in leadership?

We don't have time for that. David , uh, let me just let me, I see from the Texas district point of view, as to where I was the closest part, and one of the things that I can say about the good things is, is that, um, the way we do mission has changed and we'll continue to change, uh, at, as our world changes, as our community changes, how we reach people with a gospel is going to change. And I have been very happy and thankful to God for leading the Texas district to not be afraid of trying new ways of reaching people. And even today, uh, the Texas district continues to, to reach out to immigrants, to reach out to people are not like us and God is blessing that. And I, I think that's a good sign for the church to, and for tomorrow,

One of the things that, um, I see, uh, as I'm getting older and as I'm remov myself from, from the, the parish setting and a lot of things that I have done for years is that the difficulties that, um, could well have happened during my years in ministry didn't happen. We had such, almost a golden years of ministry, uh, during the last 25, 30, 40 years, but that's all changed. Uh, Paul, how has thing, how, how has ministry changed in your site, uh, as you have gone from one parish to another, and now, uh, our senior pastor of a parish,

I think the way that ministries changed and the, the large shift in the landscape of the culture is that, uh, I think even when I began 15 years ago, maybe there was still a sense that everybody was starting from this same playing field, meaning that they had a sense of God. They had a sense of Christianity. There was a sense of some continuity among our culture. Um, today people aren't even asking the same questions. So, uh, I think that's the most difficult thing. I think that's what our churches have to understand is as well, is that it's not about doing a better program or a larger evangelistic, uh, training. Um, it, I think for so many people, it's getting back to the basics and addressing the questions that people are asking, um, and that, you know, so I, I know it's very vague. Um, I don't think we have time to dive into all of that, but I, I think there are a lot of churches out there that are, uh, really doing a great job of, of, of, of shifting their ministry and saying, okay, wait a second. We need to rethink where people are at outside of the church. So as to reach them, I think that's an important question, uh, from history today.

And technology has made a big difference too. Luke, you wanna comment on that the technology change that's taken place in the last 12 months?

I sure would. David, I would love to talk all about that. Um, , it's here at St. Luke's, it's been a lot and I, I have, I have joked with our staff that I'm about tired of all the technology and, and I love technology, you know, uh, this is great, but yeah, we've, uh, we, we were doing some video work before this, but we were not live streaming. So we had to, uh, figure all of that out. And with that comes a whole slew of different, uh, things. How do you connect with people who are watching line? How do you, uh, um, stay connected with them during the week? Um, we've, we've, uh, developed an app at St. Luke's, um, and, you know, I say the more buttons there are, the more things there are that can go wrong. So we , we've, uh, we've added a lot of technology and, uh, done a lot of troubleshooting and are still in that process.

So, yeah, the techno, especially over the last, uh, 12 months has, has been, uh, has, has seen an incredible shift and change, but it's also, what's available to people, uh, like Paul was saying, I mean, people can get access to all kinds of content from all over the world. It's at their fingertips. It it's with them all the time. And so to understand, I think what the role of a Christian community is amongst people like Paul said, who are maybe not asking the questions they used to ask, um, how, how do you know, how does a Christian community impact their, their culture and, uh, neighborhoods around them? So all this is, yeah, there,

There have been some, I, I think significant changes

President Ken, uh, you didn't have to be involved with the technology that, um, is harassing your sons and the rest of the young guys today. But that technology, even for us in ministry doing this kind ministry is Gargan. I mean, we have to understand it in order to be able to use it and the wonderful things that are happening as a result of it. What wonderful thing is technology doing that you can talk about? Any one of you?

You know, I think one of the things that, um, as district president that I was just so thankful for, and, and even though I didn't know all the technology of how it worked is the congregation that started before COVID ever came around and has been at this for almost a couple of years where they service live. And they then raised up to pastors in their congregation to get theological, but to operate a 24 7 ministry over the web. And, uh, having people from all other countries come in and view the service and have questions, do Bible study on the web and the technology of being able to take my voice, speaking in English and changing it almost instantly into Chinese language or something else is, is all happening. It's opening up a whole new world. And just to be able to experience that as a president of a district, to see a congregation that bold, um, that said to me, Hey, the technology will always be a blessing for the church.

Here's a question that I want to ask all of you to comment on. Um, we can't, we can't see around the corner. We can't predict what tomorrow's gonna bring, but what do you see around the corner from ministry and for us as you've seen technology change things so much this last year.

Wow. That's a good question. It's a big question. Um, I guess I, I see, um, ministry being more centralized in local churches. I, I just think that is going to be the, the wave of, um, of organization, of ministry, of reproduction of ministry. Um, I think now my dad might not want to hear this , but I think, I think the days of larger denominations and efforts coming from the top, uh, of a denomination, I think those are waning and I for better, for worse. I, don't not nearly making a comment on that. I'm just saying, I think that the local church is gonna be what is gonna raise up pastors? I think the local church, you're gonna see local churches joining together in strategy and ministry. Um, and I, I think you're gonna see, uh, a revival in a, um, just smaller, smaller notification of, of, of groups.

Luke, what do you see around the corner,

David? I'll be, I'll be honest with you. I, I find that to be one of the most difficult times in my ministry to see what's around the corner. Uh, I, it is, um, I'm, you know, it's hard to kind of tell where we are right now. Uh, so I, I do struggle with that. Uh, technology wise, you know, there, the, the tension was there before all of this, which was, if you're going to do a lot of, uh, ministry online, how, how are you going to connect with those people and how are you going to keep a sense of community and, and engage, uh, in different ways. And I, I think that tension is still there. Uh, and some, some churches are, um, uh, are, are investing a lot in that and, and literally creating a separate congregate, an online congregation and doing ministry that way. And so there, there are different models as to how to approach that, but I, I will be honest with you. Uh, it is, it is an interesting time to be in ministry right now. And I, I don't, uh, I would, I would, I'm listening with, uh, wide open ears here as to, to the insight that my brother and dad are gonna give as to what's coming around the corner. This is good.

I'm really glad that that's re I'm glad that that's recorded. That was recorded right there. You hear what he said, his brother and dad's insight. That's amazing. Yes.

We've got a minute left and Ken, it's gonna be your chance to pray for us in just a minute or in 30 seconds. I wanna say, thank you. You, the insight that your dad has placed in you through the working of the holy spirit is amazing. Um, and I just thank God that you are in ministry. And I know that as my ministry closes out and probably as Ken follows me, uh, the joy of, of our own personal salvation will never wa Ken, would you close this with

Prayer father in heaven? We thank you for your love. That love has been around since the beginning of time when you created the world, and that love continues. You sent your son into this world to die for us, so that we might be sons and daughters of the, your kingdom, a kingdom that last forever in that I thank you, father for raising up men and women to be involved in ministry, whether that's in youth ministry, pastoral ministry, educational ministries, father, we just, I thank you for them. And I ask for your spirit to be on all those who you have called in full-time church work, but also I thank you father for the people that support and encourage full-time church workers. And I pray this in the name of Jesus, who is our great encourager. Amen. Thank you for coming to

Us and being with us this father's day evening. Come back again next Sunday night. Thank you. And

Goodnight. Thank you for listening to this broadcast of engaging truth to help support our ministry, contact evangelical life ministries, post office box 5 6 8, Cypress Texas 7 7 4, or visit our website@elmhouston.org, or find us on Facebook at evangelical life ministries. Thank you.