Episode 50: The Bible as Seen Through God’s Great Sending

The following program is sponsored by evangelical life

Ministries. Welcome to engaging truth, the manifestation of God's word and the lives of people around us. Join us each week. As we explore the impact of his message of spiritual renewal from the lesson of forgiveness forges in the crucible of divorce, to the message of salvation, learn by an executioner from a condemned killer to the gift of freedom found in the rescue of victims of human trafficking. This is God's truth in action.

Welcome to another addition of engaging truth. I'm your host pastor John Kane from Nacodoches Texas today. Joining us. We have a father and son, pastor who are going to share with us some of the joys of the ministry, some of the joys of, uh, growing up in the ministry in a minister home, and also some of the current, uh, projects that they're working on today. So we have, uh, Wilber, Wilbert sons and his son, Steven, welcome to the program. Thank you, John.

We're we're glad to be here. Uh, we're glad to be a part of this whole month of fathers and sons, but especially because it's a reminder that, uh, there's no such thing as retirement, uh, when God is driving his mission, uh, it continues to work, uh, no matter what your title and when you're working and how old you are. So this is a lot of fun. That's

Right. That's right. We won't say how old Moses was, but, uh, yeah, there are many, many, uh, examples of, uh, pastors who've just continue on for all the time. The Lord gives us well. And

a treasured title. I'm sure. Yes,

It was.

So, uh, for our listeners, we, we have been, uh, uh, exploring this a little bit about, um, the, the idea of having, uh, ministerial families, uh, where you have, uh, the lessons learned by a father, pastor handed on to, um, sons and perhaps grandsons. And that's a, a rather interesting experience that, uh, some people have had, and I, I have the sense that it's fewer and fewer pastors today have that experience with the increase in, uh, second career pastors and, and, uh, special ministry, uh, pastors. Um, so I I'd like to explore that a little bit with you. Um, starting with you, Steve, was there ever a time when you thought about doing something else besides ministry? That's

A great question because, um, I'll lead into it this way is, is having a father who was engaged with, uh, something called the Lutheran layman's league and Lutheran our ministries, uh, but being on the board for missions and for our listeners who not, may not know what that is, it was really highly engaged with groups that were doing missions. Uh, and we got to meet people from all over the world and to be able to here and see from these folks how exciting it was to know Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior and see the, uh, just the great, uh, confidence and power that gave them, uh, I enjoyed seeing missions at work through my dad, but I think the biggest impact was, was mission. And despite that I thought I was gonna be in a, I did wasn't accounting major, uh, worked on my accounting degree.

I was gonna get my MBA, uh, from university of Wyoming as well. And I kept saying, I will not become a pastor. Uh, I, and mom and dad always gave me lots of room to wherever God sends you. And I should have been careful with that word send because as soon as dad used that, wherever God, you, I should have known that God is ascending God, and he was gonna come after me. And part of that was gonna be going into the ministry. And so there was a big shift, uh, for me from no way to here I come. So, uh, there was a shift. Yes, well, God can

Call us in a lot of different ways. And there are certainly, um, accountants that are very useful in God's kingdom. But, um, our Lord has a way of speaking to each of us, uh, a personal calling, a personal plan, if you will, of things to do, uh, with our time here on earth. And he he's the one who decided that ministry would be, uh, your best fit. So what would you say then to, uh, the people that are listening about, um, how God spoke to you, how that worked for that, uh, maybe inner call, how you came around to the point of understanding that this was what God wanted you to do?

Uh, yeah. I, I appreciate that because I think one at the university of Wyoming, it was living out in that, uh, a mission that, uh, of being at a Lutheran campus center, uh, meeting students and people who were just had a lot of questions about who God is, uh, or when they hear the word or the name, Jesus, who is Jesus, what's that mean from my life. And so, uh, even though I lived in a household where I'd met people from all over the world ruled, uh, who expressed the change that Jesus made in their life when confronted with people who asked me those questions at the campus and said, what can you tell me? Um, all the things that have been lived out in my household, uh, came to bear in terms of sharing God's message of life, uh, in me, through me, in, and for me, uh, that I could share with them. And so, uh, that missional heart has been in our family. And I guess I couldn't run away from it when I'm facing people who are dying to know more about God. So you Des

Describe some of the joy, uh, of meeting first generation Christians, uh, that are in from the mission field and you were raised in a place with, uh, the culture was steeped in Christianity.

Um, it's a joyful thing when those two groups meet will, um, what would you say about the importance of spreading the gospel to, uh, people who haven't heard it before? Uh, thank you for that, uh, question. And, uh, it relates to what you just said about, uh, how, uh, uh, Steve was, uh, steeped in, in the, in the, in the congregations and so forth. Uh, but basically, uh, my, my second congregation, uh, was a, was church planting. And so while Steve was a very young child at that point, uh, he grew up not only in that congregation and the second congregation, which was a replanted church, uh, uh, in, in seeing mission and the sin of God involved. In other words, that congregation was started, uh, in such a way, is that it wasn't trying to reach, uh, fellow Lutherans. We cared about the world. We cared about people who, who need and Jesus and won Jesus and their life and, and wanted an answer, uh, for the hope we have in Christ. And, and so that congregation was a new church plant, which was started with the whole idea of, of reaching other people other than Lutheran. And so God sent us to them, Steve and his brother, Mike grew up with that kind of a mission attitude. And it was really a different mindset instead of caring for ourselves and caring for our own Luther, worry about other people and their,

So I understand that you have, uh, been doing some studies and, uh, culmination of the study has been writing a book, uh, partly on this subject of, of, uh, missional outreach to others. Steve, do you wanna tell us a little bit about that?

Yeah. And, uh, I wish we had more time because cause this gets us both pretty fired up because, uh, it has been instrumental in both our lives and ministries. It has been a guide, uh, from the time I was growing up in this situation to who I am as a pastor today. And that is just the lens of the whole Bible being seen through. God's great sending, uh, Jesus after his, uh, uh, after his time of dying and being raised from the dead, uh, his words, his disciples were, you know, as the father has sent me. So I am sending you in John 20, and it's interesting, a lot of Christians and people who may be on this, uh, radio thrill today are thinking, you know, the great commission is Matthew 28, you know, go there for and make disciples. But really, if you think about it it's as you are going, it really dips back to Jesus sending.

And that, that attitude is not just about pastors. It, it's not just about professional church workers it's that each Christian, uh, is sent and that our whole life becomes a place of, of God utilizing us, where we, you know, where we live and we work and we play. And so, uh, with this particular project, it has a it up in a book, uh, that's called the great sending God's heart beating through you. And I love just that title because, you know, God sees each Christian, each person that their heart is beating with the same heartbeat that God has and that God is working through them in that way. And so, um, the book is great. I, I hope that people who, uh, really want to get engaged with this will read that. Uh, but I think it's really going back to the scripture and saying, Hey, what does, what is God's heartbeat? Uh, he didn't say, uh, Jesus for the purpose of churches in the sense that we just have a gathering place for ourselves, but that we become as sending center to impact and bring Christ love to everyone.

So in, in light of the recent lockdowns, in light of the recent, uh, COVID problems, uh, as, as people are able to be sent again, what would be some of the hallmarks of that behave?

I keep talking, but dad I'll jump in there again is I don't think we were locked down during COVID. I think that's the problem with the church is we oftentimes think we have to be gathered at the church, uh, for, uh, myself and my wife Ursula. We found it'd be an exciting time because God opened more doors in our neighborhood. Uh, we saw the importance for our congregation of the partnerships we've made with the local schools. Uh, we've seen what that meant to be open and spending time with the constables and praying for them and praying with them, uh, that our campus was still available, that people could come, you know, under those protocols and all those things, but that we did not want to think about ourselves being shut down because God actually uses situations like this. It was true in the early church. You know, people were sent on, uh, dispersions in a way. And if they waited to be able to come home to Jerusalem and things were better, whatever that meant, or if we wait for things to be better, uh, this pandemic, we may be losing out on the opportunities we have to be sent, right where we are. And so I

May add, uh, the pandemic gave an opportunity, uh, for all of God's people to show that, uh, we are not self-centered, the Christian Church is not to be self-centered, uh, but, but to care for others and to be sent to others, we're just not sent to ourselves. Uh, God didn't sent, uh, Jesus just simply to the church. He sent, it sent us to the world, uh, to people, uh, and, uh, and to always send us to others. And, and so the pandemic became a wonderful opportunity, uh, for God's people to remember that that's exactly why he sent us and, uh, and very, uh, quite frankly, that is exactly how, uh, we, we, uh, reared our, our two sons, uh, that God not only sent them to us, he sent us to them, but he sent us all to others in the world.

Will and Steve, how would you summarize the message that, uh, God has sent us to share, summarize the gospel for someone who has never heard it before?

Uh, the gospel is just this, that, uh, the world, uh, there there's been a breakdown between God and the world. We see that today, as people are asking questions and God made a bridge, uh, to each one of us and his design, I was to be in a relationship with each one of us, uh, whether we're pastors, whether we're Christians, even Lutherans, God loves Lutherans, surprisingly. And, uh, God made a bridge with Jesus Christ who came, uh, as fully God and taking on, uh, the form of man and died on the cross. Uh, not only to, for sins, which people hear, but, uh, to understand that that bridge that was made there was for God to reach over to us. And then he confirms that with Jesus resurrection and that sending of Jesus, uh, was him also to send us to say that we, uh, each one of us is, is so meaningful to God, uh, that, that trust, uh, in those words that we are forgiven in Christ is not to block us off or say, that's in, uh, not in, you know, it's not inclusive. He's, he's saying I am inclusive. I'm inclusive, loving each and every one of

You. And to add to that, that's exactly why the book is named the great sending God's heart beating for the world. It is God's heart that sent Jesus, the very son of God, uh, the son of God and son of man, uh, to those in the pandemic to those hurting, to those that are filled with anxiety in their lives, uh, to those who are suffering, the consequences him, God sent Jesus to every one of us in all of our hurts and problems. And as we face life and death, do you think we

Have more people or less people now who recognize that they're sent to share the message?

I, my fear would be is that our nature seems to be to close into ourselves. So my first answer might, would be to there's less. And I know that when we judge most things in the church, we judge by how many people are sitting in seat on a Sunday morning. And we were judging by what, uh, we see in terms of the outward, uh, signs of what we've thought church is. I think we're on the cusp of though seeing, uh, just like we in the early church, it was simply the disciples in a few who change the world by are changing their outlook on who God was and what the church was about. So I probably fewer, but I think the greatest days for the church is now because those who get it, those who are living it, uh, are gonna make a bigger impact than those who just thought the church was for them.

I have told chief, uh, John I've told Steve at times that I almost wish that I was beginning my life and ministry again, because of the opportunities that God give us till people know how much Jesus love them and, and how, how his death on the cross and his resurrection absolutely guarantees that of, and the gift of eternal life. Uh, if there's any time in history that is needed us now. And I know we could say that at any time in history, but due to the fact that there is a decline in Christen and a decline in the number of Christ sent missionaries of what an so I almost wish that I could start my ministry all over again and plant some new churches again. And because it's such a great message of joy and hope, uh, for people of the world will,

If you, uh, if you wish that you could start your ministry over again, then what would you say to a young person who is contemplating going into mission work or going into, uh, studies to become a pastor for instance?

Well, I would say to him, consider the fact that God, God is sending you, uh, and that's that, that is with God's authority. The whole concept of sending is it is actually officially authoritatively being sent by Jesus Christ to the world and what a tremendous vocation and calling that is to be as sent one of Jesus to others.

And I would add to that too, is, is, is enjoy. Uh, it's not just the concerns and fears of what do we do with gathering the handful. I don't care if you're small or bigs of church. Uh, if you're thinking, how many do we gather in a small space? That's one thing. But if you think about how many people that you can help send, you can encourage, you can let them know what God is doing in their life to help reach others in their neighborhood and their families. It's an exciting time to, to be alive. And, uh, it's a great launching point. You use that earlier in a question, it's a great time to be relaunching. If we feel we need to in the church, then let's launch with Gusto, let's get out there and be the church today.

So in that aspect of being a multiplier, being one person who touches others and then in turns sends them, uh, what do you think about the, the culture today? And do you have any thoughts about why across almost all of Christendom? The number of pastors seems to have declined a little.

I think a part of that is that we've lost the understanding that God is sending us and we keep using that word sin. But that, that is basically the, the heart of the gospel. The gospel is the descending of Christ. Uh, the descending of Christ is a gospel and, and the word mission comes, uh, is the English translation, uh, of, of the, the script word send. And so we, we, we use that word mission, uh, as, as if it's only a slogan and completely forget that it is God sending us because he sent Jesus Christ. And so we need to recapture that it needs to be like a new mindset, John, it needs to be like a new DNA, uh, of, of what that really means for our lives.

No, I was gonna say it. And I think that's why we've seen a constriction of perhaps people want to go into the ministry. I think if we think of ourselves as those who are hiding behind the walls, holding the few faithful together in a defensive, uh, place, what's exciting about that. Now, if we're excited because we're on a mission and, and God is it's his mission, not ours. And it's a mission for encouraging those that are with us to be together in that mission and being sent together, uh, numbers don't become important. In fact, the mission becomes so important that we get, why do people join the service today? It's because they believe in the mission that is there to defend the country for sure, but to be together and community with those who we serve together, we are sent together. And, um, I, I, I guess what I see in the church when I see that idea of being sent, it, it's exciting for us at our, in our congregation, in north Houston.

Uh, and you've had some of these people in the program. Uh, it doesn't matter with new starts or new plants when there's a new place with a handful to see what they're doing and how that's expanding. It doesn't matter how few or a larger congregation there are. Those who are sending, uh, it's an exciting thing. So, uh, I think for those who've wondered or they thought, well, why would I want to become a pastor? Uh, why not? It's the best time to be sent on God's mission. If you're good at sending others, get on board, let's go. And what

Else can we do that has eternal consequences, but, uh, to have, uh, direction. And let's unpack that a little bit. What else do we have beside the command or the sending from God? Does he resource us? He go with us.

He, yeah. He resource us by giving us a promise to be with us always. Yeah. He resource us by giving us the holy spirit. Uh, they, and in, in fact, the scriptures talk about descending of the holy spirit is descending motif all the way through the scriptures. And that's why when Steve said at the beginning of this interview, uh, about how, uh, scriptures is seen through the lens of the ascending of God, uh, which we also call the miss O day, uh that's because it is, it is truly not only ascending of Christ, which is the E thing that is the main pro, but he, and he sent the church, but he sent the resources of the holy spirit. And even though prayer is not a means of grace, prayer is also one of the resources that God gives, uh, to the church. And, and then, then the great resource of the word of God itself. And so this, this book, the great sending, uh, is seek to get God's people to dive into the scriptures, the word of God, as the resource for our ASC sending

For this, uh, uh, radio program, we'd invite our listeners to visit us@elmhouston.org. And on that website, you can find podcasts, archived past programs that you can download and listen to. There's also a way for you to support us. We are volunteers in this, so your, uh, donations go far, your donations by us airtime, keep us on the air. So we invite you to visit us@elmhouston.org very quickly. How can our listeners, uh, get a copy of your

Book? Well, there's, uh, two ways. One is just to go to Amazon. If you want an individual copy, look up the great sending, uh, and especially if you can get that, uh, aspect of, uh, God's, uh, heart beating for the world through you helps, uh, we actually have, uh, a website as well. So if you like to do a study or have a group of people get together, you can buy it by theCase@thegreatsending.org. And there's a little more information there as well. And we have a lot of people who are jumping on board to say, we wanna see a Christ led movement, not just here locally, but, uh, throughout, uh, the country throughout the world. And so the great sending.org would be a great way, uh, to jump into that. And, uh, those books are available there.

Very good. Well, thank you will and stay E blessings on you and thank you for your work. Join us again real soon for another addition of

Engaging truth. Thank you for listening to this broadcast of engaging truth. Be sure to join us each week at this time, to help support our ministry, contact evangelical life ministries, post office Fox 5 68, Cypress, Texas seven elm.org, or us evangelical ministries.