Episode 16: Being in Ministry

The following program is sponsored by evangelical life

Ministries. Welcome to engaging truth, the manifestation of God's word and the lives of people around us. Join us each week. As we explore the impact of his message of spiritual renewal from the lesson of forgiveness forges in the crucible of divorce, to the message of salvation, learn by an executioner from a condemned killer to the gift of freedom found in the rescue of victims of human trafficking. This is God's truth in action.

Good evening. This is an engaging truth. Uh, radio program heard every Sunday night at the seven and seven 30 slot. Um, Elm is the, the mother of this engaging truth programming. So you'll hear it every Sunday night and have for 11 years Christ the very center point of what we do and of what we speak on this particular time of the year. We're focusing our attention upon pastors who have been in ministry for a long time. Pastors who have retired from ministry pastors who have a story, uh, pastors who have loved, who have lost loved ones. And I'm going to introduce you this evening to one of my favorite brothers in ministry who has always touched my life simply be because the clarity of the gospel comes from him every time I hear him speak. My friend's name is pastor John ke. Welcome John.

Good evening. Good to talk to you, Dave. Thank you, pastor

John. We're going to begin just with a little bit of information about where you have been. I think, think a lot of pastors can say they've been in many, many different places. Um, but the last many years you've been a, uh, the pastor of Gloria Day in Kema. And, uh, let's just talk a little bit about first, about where you began in ministry and how you ended up in Kema. Well,

I got one of the better gifts in the seminary was my wife of 50 years who happened to be the president secretary. And, uh, she and I had a whirlwind worlds from October of 69 engaged in January and of 70, got married on July the fourth, the firework started. And, uh, we started our minister together at our Redeemer Luther church in I Texas. And it was a wonderful ministry. I am so grateful to God that by his grace, he called the two of us to that wonderful little church. And, uh, we served there for four years. God bless us with two children. And then, uh, a cousin of mine proposed, uh, my name for the call glory day in Houston. And I was stunned when I received it. Didn't know what to do. Uh, talked to several people and was led by the spirit to accept the call to Gloria Day.

Uh, I must say pastor John, that, um, I've known you for all the time that I've been in Texas and I've always been motivated by just the way you make the presentation on Stu from a sincere, wholesome gospel presentation. I belong to Aldi for almost 25 years, and I've heard many, many conversations and many motivational speeches, but none like you, uh, gave to us at St John's years ago on second Corinthians eight. And that was absolutely the, the, the, the, the, the prime conversation of motivation for giving in the name of Jesus. So I wanna say thank you again publicly.

Well, I wanna say thank you, is my privilege. And, uh, I just tell you anything that I've accomplished is in line with what Paul wrote, you know, that, uh, whatever good comes out of this is an evidence of grace, because I really believe that all of life, all of our time talents, uh, possessions are all evidences of God's marvelous, grace to us. And so thank you for your very kind comments today, pastor day.

Well, I know that when I began in, probably it was in the early sixties when I began a minister, I remember the president of the seminary said it very vocally. Okay, you guys have got your calls and I'll go out and take care of that church and start another one. Uh, I didn't know any differently. I, I thought that was the absolute way of doing ministry. You start one church and, or you take care of one church and you start another one. Well, was your time, was your time with Gloria Day? Had they even done anything there, except just identify the place where the new church ought to be?

Well, you know, uh, I was privileged to serve. It was actually a, there's a call it a mission start from the Texas district, but supported by hope Luther in church in Friendswood. Oh yes. And Larry Larry right near was the pastor there. And this was when NASA was developing. And so the Texas district had the course I to buy three and a half acres of property, they thought in those days, that's all the property you need, you know, for a church. And they really had the foresight to buy that. And then the first pastor was pastor Leo Simak and he served there from 60, uh, I think it was, uh, late 67 until, uh, the spring 74. And, and, uh, I don't say this disrespectfully, but really the, the glory they grew because there were many, many, uh, Lutherans moving into the area. And so that was, uh, it really became, uh, a church that, you know, and thank God for it could serve Lutheran families into the, uh, clear lake area in the Johnson space center.

And I recall vividly saying to the, uh, leadership, when I considered that call, I said, uh, uh, are you willing to reach people that have I, I, for years I have been most effective in reaching when I call be charged. I know that on call 'em unchurched. Wow. I found that there are a lot of people that originally had a connection that were baptized of the Christian faith and they drifted away. And so, uh, we really were able by the grace of God, uh, about half of our membership came from that type of background. We certainly never, uh, said, you, if you're Lutheran, you can't join. That was not what we were saying, but we really felt that we were to be a mission to those who had, uh, become de churched and God richly bless that ministry. The people caught the vision and God bless that ministry tremendously. It was, I'm gonna say it again, pastor today, it was all by grace. I really didn't know what I was doing, but he did. And , and so I'm grateful for his leadership and

Inspiration. Isn't that true of all ministry. We go out there and we plunge in and we do it and really has nothing to do with us anyway, at all, is by grace.

Amen. Amen. Let me ask question. Sure,

Sure. What would you say ought to be? And I think I know the answer, but what do you say ought to be the highlight of all ministry? Oh,

I think bringing people into a personal relationship with Jesus Christ that, uh, uh, I believe that life is all about relationships. I don't believe that you, uh, and this is a personal conviction. I don't think anybody can experience God apart from another personal relationship. And certainly it's in a personal relationship with Jesus, but as a John reminds us his letters. Yeah. You can't say you love God if you don't like the person that's next to you. And so I just, uh, I've learned over the years, I was talking with a, with a church planter today. We had lunch together and I said, one constant in my life in ministry has been helping people, cultivate relationships. We don't do it perfectly. We're all broken, but I'll tell you, I, I've never met a person that didn't yarn to have a deep relationship with God. And the way you're gonna experience that is in a relationship with a person in whom the spirit of God will. So, uh, uh, I, I hope that comes through clearly, uh, that, uh, that to know Jesus as to know, as to know a Christian,

You know, there is nothing like standing in front of a crowd of people, or even a Bible class of few people and proclaiming the message in such a way that you sometimes are. But then you see the scales fall from the eyes of some of the people who are there. Explain, just kind of share with the, the listen audience, that experience of joy.

Well, and I think part of it is that most of us, uh, labor under what, what, you know, what the Bible says is the law. Yeah. In other words, and, and frankly, I include my own life in that, you know, uh, that we try to prove our worth. We try to, uh, tell God, Hey, we're the best that we can. And, and honestly deepen our gut, pardon the expression. Uh, we know that, you know what, it still just doesn't work . And so, uh, cuz I, I honestly thought I understood grace until I went through a personal crisis in ministry and uh, God took care of some pride in my life. It took him about five years and I got a little bit little myth that, that took him so long that he said, you're just a hardheaded German. I'm gonna stick with it. And I tell you, I discovered in that moment and that is what, uh, uh, I tell you, that's what sets people free by grace you're saved.

It's a gift of God, not a worse, blessed any per boas and then reminding ourselves what a pleasure because God has made us his workmanship in Christ Jesus so that we can do those good works now freed and inspired by his grace that God had planned for us all along, uh, God's richest ex Christ expense, you know, that was James Kennedy's line. That's right. And uh, I'll tell you so many people have said they've been the church for years and never heard it. And I thought, well, we wanna make sure they hear it. You know what? We wanna make sure they hear it. Yep. But we have to live, but too. Yeah. You know, we have to be willing. We have to be willing to, to uh, allow God to forgive us and that we can forgive other people that that's only by grace. Another

Question for you. And I think about people of influence in our life. And I think about those who were influential in my life, who would you say was the greatest influence in your ministry and how were they of that?

Ministry. Let's just take a couple minutes in, just talk about what we are and what we do. We are a small group of Christ centered folks who believe in the power of communication programs, such as this can be disseminated electronically almost immediately instantaneously across the world. And you know, I don't think that's gonna end. That's why we are pausing at this moment to ask you to prayerfully, consider helping us distribute our program interviews. I'll tell you how you can do that. You can go to our website E L M houston.org to donate online, or you can send your support to, and I'll give you the address. E L M P O box 5 68, Cypress, Texas 77, 410. And also at our website, Elm houston.org. You can access podcasts of past engaging truth programs or use the contact tab to ask, discuss a question, comment on our programming, or even submit a prayer request. Let's go back a little bit to our guest. Uh, pastor John Kischnik retired, but, uh, repositioned to do many other things. And I'm sure that as he wakes up in the morning, another new idea enters mind. You know, I would like to ask the question as you look back, might you be willing to tell us what you might have done differently? If anything?

Well, one of the biggest learning experiences for me was in my first, uh, um, uh, pastoral ministry. It was, was called a mission. Although I think every congregation should consider themselves as a mission, but we were in a little demoable chapel and, uh, there were like 90 members. And what have you and God, I was, I was privileged to serve there as I say, a little over four years. And, uh, so God just grew that church. And uh, I said, boy, we need to go to two services. And people said, oh pastor, if we do that, we won't know everybody here. And I bought into it and it was a mistake. heaven. We all was, oh my goodness. So I would say that was, uh, that was a boneheaded move be. And, and part of it. And it's easy to do that because I grew up in central Texas and everybody I knew was a Christian.

You were either Missouri Senate Lutheran. You remember the American Lutheran church. It was called the lower church. It was down at the bottom of the hill. And then it was a Roman Catholic church, uh, quite, you know, several miles away. That was really the upper church. Although Missouri Senate, I am thought we were. And, uh, but I'm, I'm telling you, I didn't know anybody that wasn't affiliated with the church. So I assumed when, when we moved into Hering, that was gonna be true. Wow. Did I have to learn? That was not true. And, uh, so I had to learn a whole new way of doing ministry and I, I I'll go back to, uh, pastor Ray Scotty. He is the one that really said in job and he provided opportunities for me to grow in that. But I remember walking the streets in those days.

I was different. You could still do that today. I know that some groups do, but frankly, it's not nearly as effective as, as people used to lay in their streets. And I remember my knees were just knocking, uh, when I would knock on somebody's door and I really didn't want to do it. and my goodness, the second house I came to happened to be a doc, this family and said, well, why don't you come on in? We have two girls we're Lutherans. We've never connected anywhere. We have two girls that need to be baptized. And, and so, uh, praise God for the, you know, I mean, that's again, so providential, but I would say, I mean, I made, and that's where grace comes in. Uh, I made my share of mistakes, but I learned something from a LA shower. He, he said, uh, when, when you try to do things differently, he said, uh, don't set it in stone.

Uh, tell the members we're going to experiment. If this works, we'll continue to improve it. If it doesn't work, we'll forget it. We'll move on and try something else. And I'll tell you, that's had a profound influence, uh, in my ministry if people know this is, you know, if we have to change course, uh, we're gonna change the course, uh, God freezes to do that. So I would say the, the freedom to make, uh, uh, you know, different decisions as the spirit of God leads because times change as we all know, but the gospel never does. And everybody deeds that relationship.

You just recently, uh, brother John, lost your wife, uh, of, uh, many years. Give us a little, give us a little heart, a conversation about that relationship and how she benefited in your ministry so

Much. Well I'm, uh, pastor, babe. I'm so glad that you asked, because I mentioned earlier that, uh, probably the best thing I got out of the seminary was my wife, because she was the president secretary . And I won't go into the peculiar way in which we had our first date, et cetera. She hated that story, but I love that. And I'll tell it to you sometimes, but, uh, I mean, it's a whirlwind romance, uh, dated, as I said, October engaged in January, married July and started our ministry. But, uh, she had not come out of a, uh, she, she had been a Baptist and was baptized in her young years, the Baptist church, then her own DEC, she had lost her father when she was six and a half. And her sister was like eight. So she was raised by her single, uh, mother and grandmother, she and her sister.

And, uh, she told me early on that she above all else. She wanted to be a wife and a mother. And, uh, uh, boy, I'll tell you, she, she taught me so much because I had a stereotypical view of what a pastor's wife ought to be and what she taught me and people really at Gloria Day deeply appreciated. And that is that, uh, her primary calling was to be my wife and the mother of our three children. And she just happened to married to a pastor. And, uh, so, uh, did that, and, and I know that every couple, every, uh, pastor and a spouse couple is different. Okay. But it really worked for us. And I, I will tell you, I'm so grateful to God. Uh, my wife's greatest legacy. She, she went home to be with the Lord September the 21st. And we had just celebrated 50 years of marriage on July the fourth and, uh, her greatest legacy for her three, uh, hour, three children.

And, uh, I'm so grateful to God for her. Uh, I miss her, but you know what? I know she's home with the Lord. And so many people sent letters, cards and said, you know what? We really loved about Elaine. She just was who she was. Yes. She never made a big issue that she happened to be, she, she told somebody, she said, uh, well, I'm John's wife. Well, what does John do? Well, he's a pastor. You mean pastor here? yeah. You know, at Gloria Day. And, uh, so that, uh, I, I am forever grateful because a one mistake I made in ministry is I almost married in addition to my wife. And, uh, she put up with it and she said, one time, how do you argue with a man who said, God has called me to do this. And, uh, but she'd called me to account appropriately. And so we had a, uh, we, we had a good, uh, at times feisty relationship, but you know what? Grace covered that too. Pastor John,

Thank you for your presence tonight on engaging truth. We'll be back again. Join us again at seven or seven 30 next Sunday night. Good night.

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