Pastor David Bahn has been in ministry for decades. He’s preached hundreds and hundreds of sermons, taught countless Bible studies and walked with many people in their faith journey. But in just a handful of week’s he’ll be retiring. Pastor Bahn sits down with host Matt Popovits to discuss how a pastor prepares for retirement, the temptation (even for pastors!) to find our identity in what we do, and how he—and us all—can face the future with peace.
Transcript
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To engaging truth. I'm your host, Matt Popovits. And with me on the show tonight is pastor David Bond. He's the pastor of Saint John. And so Texas and David Bond is with us to help us understand what it's like to, to be a parish pastor, but in particular, to talk about what it's like for a pastor as he heads toward retirement, and he steps out of a lifelong calling, calling in into a brand new season, pastor bond. Welcome to engaging truth.
Thank you, man. It's good to be here. It's
Great to have you with us. So, so tell us a little bit about the, uh, the ministry that you've had. Um, how many, how many different congregations have you served? How many years have you been a pastor
en moved to Texas in, uh, uh,:So what are some of the best things about being, being a pastor you you've now got, uh, really a whole career under your belt, right? Uh, what are, what are the best parts?
Um, I think, uh, seeing a, just remember seeing a kid in confirmation class, get it, I mean, the light went on. It was like, you know, and you could physically see it in his face. Uh, that's one of the best parts, uh, seeing an adult, uh, just last week we had a dad and his two children baptized and the joy that he had and that he has for his children and his wife now also, uh, she was already baptized. And, uh, and so those kinds of things, when you see the gospel that work in people's lives is really, really special. I think the other thing is we've been a, a privilege to have some significant, um, interaction and experiences in foreign missions. Uh, we've been in China, uh, did a mission trip to Russia, uh, been to Africa a few times, uh, Kenya and Tanzania, and, uh, to see the gospel in those places and to be able to have a very specific, um, uh, interaction with people around the gospel message, uh, has been just a joy and a delight. So those kinds of things are, are very much high on our list on my list. Um, the fact that Diane is a significant partner with me and all of this is also a great blessing. She works for a thing called PLI, which is a missional training, um, uh, entity for, uh, pastors and church leaders and spouses. And, uh, it to be involved with that too, is, is a great blessing.
How is ministry as it's been, lived out different from what you thought it would be when you first graduated from the
Seminary? I remember crossing over the planes of the Western front of the Rocky mountains. And I remember as I was heading out there, I made myself sick, worrying about the people, and they're all gonna hate me and I'm gonna have to do all these hard things. And, and I just, I literally was sick by the time of my installation. Um, that thanks be to God, proved to be a complet unnecessary fear. Um, there was almost a sense that, uh, I picked up whether whose fault, I don't know. Um, I'll just take the blame myself. I took, I took it on that. I really needed to be afraid of the congregation and afraid of what they might want to do and kind of be protective of, of, um, what to, you know, what was true and good and so forth. And, uh, I think learning that, uh, the people of God are incredibly gifted and, uh, wonderfully willing to be involved in ministry, um, is just, is just, uh, one of the things that I was able to learn.
I think the other thing for me personally, also, and this is a little bit dicey, but yeah, I think maybe it might be helpful to know when I graduated from the seminary. Um, it was a tumultuous time in our church body, and I can remember having a self-assigned mission. Uh, basically I would say to save the Senate from the liberals. And, uh, once, once I really got into minister and really had a chance to consider what the mission really was all about the great commission and really embracing that. Um, and I'm by no means I'm thinking, uh, oh, let's, let's just abandon biblical truth, or let's not worry about being, uh, you know, confessionally, uh, um, faithful. I, we hold on to biblical truth and be confessionally faithful. That's true. But the mission is to bring the gospel of Jesus Christ, uh, to people. And in our particular church, we've put it this way that we're connecting our neighbors to true riches in Jesus.
's another good story. Um, in:Um, and quite, quite honestly, there's a, there is a sense that I'm really ready to hand the Baton off. I'm really excited about the, uh, pastor mark. Woo Gaer. Who's going to be the new senior pastor at St. John he'll be installed in January, and I'm very much excited to hand the Baton to him. And, um, uh, the other part about this retirement thing is that, um, I'm, I'm thinking of it as a pause, uh, kind of almost a, an extended sabbatical, and I'll look for something else to do, uh, maybe, you know, in six months or so, and just say, okay, God, what do you have for me now? Because I, I'm not done serving, uh, I love the kingdom. I love the church. And, um, and so it's really a matter of saying this is, is the time to, um, let go of, uh, the reigns of leadership of a church of a congregation and maybe see how I might serve in other ways,
You know, as a pastor. And, and I, I say this, you know, being with myself and I, I might in this question, just be projecting all of my own stuff on you. You that's feel free, feel free to call me out on that. But, but as a pastor, it's very easy for your whole identity, like your whole understanding of who you are and yourself to be wrapped around this, this calling that you have, and this work that you do. Absolutely. I am a pastor. I am a pastor has, has stepping into, as you get closer to retirement. Uh, cuz you're, you're pretty close now just a couple months away. Right, right. Has stepping into retirement. How, how has that affected or made you wrestle with this, this identity that you've always had as a, as a pastor?
Yeah. Um, some subtle things about that. Um, about six months or a year ago, I began, um, really giving people strong permission, especially my friends that are members of the church to call me David. And some of them are very comfortable calling me pastor. They want to continue that. But uh, just even using my name, my first name, um, you know, um, St Paul after all by his first name
I have, uh, I'm an amateur photographer and, um, very, you know, dedicated to that. Um, and I'm a member of a photo club and that has really afforded me the opportunity to build relationships outside the church. And there, I'm definitely known as David. I mean, that's just, that's who I am. And so that's helpful. Uh, and in addition, we have begun to take some steps in our neighborhood, uh, to engage with people on a very per and to do some things like, uh, uh, to, uh, invite people over and to enjoy conversation and, and, uh, some refreshments and so forth just to begin to build the relationships outside the church. We're gonna really miss. I mean, that's the biggest, hardest part of retirement is to lose our church fellowship. Um, that's, that's really gonna be hard, but, uh, but I feel like we've taken some steps there that are gonna be helpful.
So as you, as you look into retirement, uh, it sounds already like, like you've, you've tried to be very intentional about preparing for this and you perhaps have already learned, learned a couple lessons along the way, you know, what, what have you learned or what are you discovering about stepping into this in a healthy way that you could maybe pass on to somebody else who, who is heading into this season of life, whether they're a pastor or not heading into retirement, what are some, what's some advice you might give them?
Uh, years ago when we were in Arkansas, uh, a friend of mine, describe I a fellow pastor who was nearing retirement, uh, by saying it's the longest slide into home I've ever seen. And I thought, I don't wanna be that guy. I want to run through the tape. And, uh, and so a while back, I'd been, again, a conversation with a coach and, um, just kind of seeing if we would fit we'd, you know, click and be able to work together, uh, in particular, I mean, working through these issues, these very issues. So, um, in that first conversation we had, I told him that, I said, I wanna run through the tape. And his question to me was, so what does that look like six months after January 31st? And I thought, oh my goodness, what a great question. And so I begun to have to, and, and this has been a helpful thing to have somebody that's helped me think through the kinds of issues that lie before me, uh, in anticipation of not just getting to January 31st and saying, okay, done now, but really, okay, six months from then you, what is it gonna look like?
And, and what is that, uh, um, you know, how am I gonna get there and what are the things I'm going to do in anticipation of that? We've got some things planned. I have some potential opportunities that may come up, uh, by that time, but at any rate, that's where we are, um, with the, uh, uh, the whole idea of getting the transition. So I think just being very intentional, um, thoughtful, and, uh, we, we began really working on our transition plan at St. John, uh, a little over two years ago and, uh, really being very about the time level, the timeframe, uh, all those kinds of things, what it would look like, the model we were going to use everything else. And, um, and so that was, uh, that was a really good, um, process as well. That kind of set us up for that. So you cant begin to soon and you need to be very intentional. And, um, and then, you know, thank God for people who come alongside you and are asking these great questions and helping you think about, um, you know, what, what you need to be thinking about.
You're listening to engaging truth. Um, Matt Popovits with me on the program today is pastor David Bond. We're talking about what it's like to be a pastor and specifically what it's like to be a pastor who's headed into retirement, and we're trying to get inside of his heart and mind, and also dig out some insights, uh, for you and yours as you hit, perhaps potentially a new season in life, if you like this program. And if you wanna learn more about engaging truth and, and potentially support this ministry or discover previous programs, you can head to LM houston.org. I mentioned supporting the program. This is a nonprofit 5 0 1 C three. It's completely supported by listeners like you, who like this program who wanna learn more and wanna have more in their lives. And so to learn more about being a supporter, just head to E LM, houston.org, pastor bond, you, you talked about that purposeful transition at your church.
And, uh, sometimes those transitions from one leader to another can go really poorly. In fact, I hate to say it seems like more often than not, especially if someone's been a transformative leader. And I know enough about your time at St. John you've led them through a lot of things. It's a fundamentally different church in a good way than when you got there. When, when they're transitioning away from a positive transformative leader into the next person, that that can be a real struggle. And, and quite often it goes very poorly. Tell me more about what you guys have tried to do at St. John to make sure that it's a healthy transition.
Yes. Uh, thank you. We have, um, a, we had a, uh, transition team that I worked with for about a year and a half. And then when the process came for the call, uh, to, to begin to unfold the call process, uh, fortunately our constitution is extremely clear on what that looks like, what needs to happen, who needs to be on the call committee, so on and so forth. The fact that they bring one name to the congregation for, uh, the call as senior pastors, specifically spelled out in the congregation. So there's very little confusion, but on top of that, um, and more important was the, the blessing in favor of God in this that I believe came because of the very, um, intentional and deliberate and prayerful manner in which they undertook it. Once the call committee got started, I attended portions, I think of maybe three meetings and the rest of those meetings were done, uh, apart from me and I, so I, it wasn't like I'm gonna pick my successor.
Um, we had very, very good dedicated and have very good and dedicated people on the call committee. And, uh, very, they're very, very committed to being very, uh, careful and, and, uh, prayerfully in the process. Um, and then we also had the help of some district people, uh, John B and, uh, John Davis, uh, our area vice president and our area ministry, uh, mission ministry facilitator who served the, the, uh, call committee very well. Um, but I didn't just completely withdraw so that I would occasionally speak to the chairman of the call committee and ask, you know, how's it going, or I would offer an insight or a thought, uh, very clearly as for them to do with, as they wish. In other words, I let it out there if it, if it was, uh, important, uh, for them to follow up on, they did. Um, but, um, but that whole process then developed in such a way that when the time came before the, um, before the, uh, call com call meeting occurred at our church, uh, the call committee had one final meeting and they came to that meeting.
And the chairman of the committee just said, before we talk, before we do anything, you've, y'all been studying, you've been praying what, who is the person that is your, uh, number one pick? And they went around the, the, the, the group and every single person identified, uh, pastor mark. Woo Gaer is the guy. And, uh, it was, it was like a stunning moment. They, they talk about it in, in terms that you just realized there was something very special happening there. And, um, and, and there's challenges to that because there are people who maybe think that an associate pastor would be the one that would be, uh, naturally considered and, uh, or the one that would be almost like the, he apparent. Um, but they went into the process without thinking, in terms of anybody in particular, they wanted to seek who God would, would, uh, lead in that.
And I'd have to say the manner in which, uh, our staff as a whole, but especially our associate pastors have interacted with this and, and been a part of it has been incredibly good and positive and faithful and full of integrity. And so that that's vitally important. Um, I, I would think in that situation, you know, it could be a challenge to have to deal with some of the, some of the disappointment maybe you might feel, or, uh, you know, anxiety that might be there. Uh, even if it's all good, you know, so yeah, the fact that they have had that positive attitude has been very good and, um, a wonderful thing because, uh, I've been able to speak with the pastor who's, uh, following me and, and, um, we've had just a great connection also, personally. So that's the, that's the deal. And here's the kind of the, between the two of us, I think we're both afraid to step on each other's toes.
It's like, we want to to honor the other person, we don't want to bulldoze, you know, whatever. And, um, the only thing that, uh, there's two things he asked, um, number one, when I told him that I planned to, um, leave and get outta my office before he got here and just to have that completely available to him, he said, okay, just as long as you let everybody know that it, wasn't me asking you to leave your office. And, and I, of course, I mean, sure. So I did that, uh, and then we've agreed that I'm gonna be absent for a year and let him have the full season of experience with the people and just, uh, really let him be the new guy. Um, man, I'm just gonna cheer for him and root for him and, and, uh, look forward to seeing God do great things there at St. John through him and the rest of the staff there.
As you look at now, the final few months of your, your pastoral ministry, uh, although as you say, ministry for you is gonna continue mm-hmm
Uh, I'd wanna say, God loves you. He loves you deeply, and you are his, and your identity is in Jesus Christ and not whether or not you make every exact sermon perfect or Bible study or pastoral visit or hospital call perfectly, but that you are, who he has made you to be. You're giving your best for his glory. And, uh, and really just embrace that. And, and remember what the real mission is, the real mission isn't to win the people's hearts, the real mission isn't to make sure that the church runs smoothly. Those are good things, but the room mission is to bring the gospel to other people and, uh, and to make disciples. And, uh, just if you can hold that, um, another way that I might also say, um, one of my heroes in terms of, uh, just the way in which, uh, the church works in the congregation is a guy by the name of Edwin free Edman. He's kind of one of the fathers of system systems thinking. And, um, he says he has kind of a mantra or used to say, uh, define yourself and stay connected. And boy, that's powerful. If you know who you are, I'm a, I'm a child of God. I'm a servant of Christ. And I wanna stay connected with you. Let's continue this conversation, even if we're at odds, you know, kind of thing. That's, those are the kinds of things I would say. Yeah.
I love that. Define yourself and stay connected. That's that's,
It's a powerful combination. Yeah.
It really, really is. You know, as I look at, at my ministry, I'm about maybe at that, maybe it's a halfway point, maybe a little, a little less than that. Um, I was having a conversation with my wife, uh, maybe a couple weeks ago, talking about how, you know, my aims in ministry have changed since the beginning to where I am now. Like when I was, when I was fresh outta seminary, you know, my goal was to, to plant a church and what really, really big, and then write a bunch of books and then teach other people how to do the same thing. Right. Awesome. And then
You look around and you realize, yeah, you look around and you realize, oh, I'm not Martin Luther
Right. Right. Right. And, and, and then, but along the way, you, you see so many other fellow pastors who, you know, it's a, they, they fall, they stumble, they struggle. Um, their lives kind of blow up. Um, and God is there for them. And, and God's grace is at work in their lives, but you also say, oh my goodness there, but for the grace of God, amen. Go, I, and you start to say, I just, I just wanna, I just wanna finish, well, I just wanna finish. Well, did, did you see, we've got, we've got about two minutes left. Mm-hmm
Uh, yeah. I think, uh, you know, you, you, you can't help. I can't help, but now reflect on issues around family and, um, maybe a, a need for me to have been more attentive to my family. I always was, I always cared. I made it to all the ball games. I could, you know, those kinds of things. I wasn't the, uh, you know, the perennially absent father, but I think there were a lot of times when I could have been more engaged. And so I, you know, kind of process it a little bit more, reflect a little bit more. And, uh, and that the idea of finishing well, uh, the idea of recognizing that, um, what I want to do is serve the cause of God's kingdom in whatever way he allows me to do so is what needs to be on my heart. And, um, to have served as congregation, such as St. John has been a, an incredible privilege. I, I love the people. I love the church. I love the, the, all the things that are a part of it. Um, and, and I just have to know that that was one way in which I'm serving the king of God. There will be others as well. And that's what I want to keep in mind.
Yeah. Pastor bond, thank you as one pastor to another. Um, thank you for, for years of faithful service and for being a light, bright light for the gospel here, the Houston area, I've gotten the chance to, to be a neighbor in ministry to you. You've been a great blessing to a lot of people. And, uh, I know personally, a lot of the folks who've been able to, uh, to work, uh, under you and alongside of you and, um, they, they speak very well about your leadership. And so congratulations on entering this season of life. Thank you,
Matt. It's been a joy to be with you. Uh, I wish God's blessings for you also.
Thank you, sir. And, and thank you for listening as always, if you wanna listen to engaging truth, you can find us right here. Same time, same station each and every week. We, we are so glad that you're with us until next time.
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