Episode 6: Reducing the Demand for Human Trafficking

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Welcome to engaging truth, the manifestation of God's word and the lives of people around us. Join us each week. As we explore the impact of his message of spiritual renewal from the lesson of forgiveness, Fords them the crucible of divorce, to the message of S learned by an executioner from a condemned killer to the gift of freedom found in the rescue of victims of human trafficking. This is God's truth in action. Welcome

To engaging truth. I'm your host, Matt Popovits I'm here today with Joe Madison. He is the executive director of the demand reduction. Organiz love people, not pixels, Joe. Thanks so much for being on

Engaging truth. Yeah. Thank you, Matt. This is exciting. I've been looking forward to it all day busy day, and I kept looking at my watch. They can stop five yet. I'm ready to, I'm ready to jump into it. We're

Ready to talk to you. And we're, we're excited to learn about the work that your organization does. Uh, so why don't we start there, uh, tell us, uh, about love people, not pixels what's its mission. What do you guys do?

Yeah, so we have, we do quite a bit. Um, so I'll, I'll, I'll start with sort of this description. Our goal is to eliminate human trafficking by addressing demand. Um, we wanna understand not just why would somebody, um, you know, pay for sex or, uh, pornography or anything like that. We wanna know why does that person want to do that? And why is it so easy and acceptable to do so? So we ask ourselves two questions. Anytime we take action as an organization, we ask ourselves those two questions. Why would anybody wants to buy another person or exploit another person? And the second one is why is it so easy and acceptable to do so that gives us sort of a guideline for how to take action. And we'll, I'm sure we'll dig into it in detail, but the, the, the bigger picture is that we truly believe that if no one is buying, then no one's being sold. We work with wonderful or organizations, partners that, um, are serving survivors and, and overcomers. As one of my friends who is a survivor, she likes to call herself an overcomer. Then she is that, um, they work with them. We wanna make sure that we are eliminating the motivation to buy and the access to exploit people.

So how help our listeners understand. And because I, you know, my assumption is that there are people out there who, who really don't understand that there, that there really is this world where human beings are getting caught up into being, um, used as, as, as, as objects for the sexual gratification, uh, of others. Um, and it's a life, uh, of enslavement that is very difficult to extricate yourself, um, help our listeners understand that this world really does exist.

Yeah, it, it is hard to number one, come to terms that it's not happening somewhere, uh, it's happening wherever you are. And while that may seem like an overstatement to some, let me explain that the formula for trafficking, uh, for, for someone to be trafficked is typically, it really just comes down to this. Somebody willing to exploit them, somebody willing to pay, to exploit them, and then somebody who's vulnerable. And when we have that combination, we find that trafficking is not only, not only here in America, but it's, it's quite prevalent. In fact, we are the number one consumer of illicit, uh, illegal sex in the world. And, and so when we realize that it is here, we have to ask ourselves, what does that mean? Where, where is it? Is it just an in the bad neighborhoods? Well know, it's, it's anywhere that there is a demand for it and demand.

We will define in many different ways when we talk to a group, you know, it's, it's, it's funny, man. So I a Saudi group of parents last week. And, uh, they know we're a demand reduction org that fights trafficking, but we were talking to them and they, their kids about raising families in a hypersexualized culture and they were asking, so how does that connect porn and trafficking? Well, when we consume something like pornography, it creates a demand for more of that product as such, that demand requires what supply and supply is, is sadly often fulfilled via human trafficking. And so we see that it's not just happening somewhere, it's it's happening here.

Wow. And, and it's, and it's not just, um, women who are caught up into this, um, as if that isn't bad enough, but it's, it's, it's it's children too, right?

Yeah. Uh, sadly, depending on the statistics and, and we are pretty, pretty hesitant to throw statistics out there just for the sake of statistics, we use them usually as a beginning of a talking point to give context, but one of the fastest growing demographics in exploitation are young boys. Um, and, and again, sadly, the supply and demand model exists are, um, there are, there are measures of depravity that, that come with pornography, uh, that come with exploitation. And as people go into what I've developed and what we call with love people, not pixels, the escalation dynamic, where they start maybe with soft core pornography, and then they kinda stare a step in a hardcore because that's the way that industry is designed to draw you in. Um, we could talk all day about that. The fact that the matter is soft pornography, uh, nearly 90% of that has violence against women in it, whether it's degrading language, uh, some sort of, uh, hitting something and that's, what's considered soft.

And, and that starts to map our brains. And so that escalation into hardcore pornography has so many categories that are, are very disturbing. Um, we talked to men who are at the point of arrest. We had an operation last night. And when we talk to these men, we ask them if they have an issue with pornography, if this is something that is, is part of their, their world and to a man. Yes, they do. Um, we also ask him, are you watching the same pornography you were when you started watching porn or even three months ago, or, or three years ago? And we realize that that's not the case. They, they have escalated into something that before they probably would've been, uh, completely disgusted by, or they would have found to be, oh, well, not that I'm not gonna watch that. So we have to understand that there is a process and this escalation that happens and sadly young people and children are, are, are part of that spectrum mm-hmm

. And I think an important part of what you said. I mean, so, so much of it is so, so sad and important at the same time, uh, is that, uh, the, the, the pornography that is consumed by our culture, it comes from somewhere and at the cost of someone, um, that, that there are people, human beings who have to be brought into a lifestyle that, um, and a, and a setting that, that manufactures and makes these things, um, it doesn't fall outta the sky. It, it, it, it, it, it comes from a process and involves real people, which, which, which brings me to my, my next question in, uh, in, in recent weeks, there was a, a lot of, uh, a lot of uproar culturally about, uh, a Netflix documentary called cuties mm-hmm , uh, which, which tried to depict the, the hypersexualization of young girls, but it utilized young girls in the depiction of this hypersexualized culture that we live in. And, and that, and there were many who understandably were, were very bothered by this and, uh, were, were pushing for Netflix to take it down or for people to boycot Netflix as a result. And, and what I wanted to, to ask you, Joe, is, uh, you know, is there a connection between something like between something like this, this, this Netflix show, which sexualizes young people at the expense of young people in making this depiction and the, the work that you're doing to try and get human beings out of human trafficking?

Yes. Uh, the answer, the short answer is yes, but I'm not capable of a short answer. So I'll give that a few layers. Um, yes. Uh, we, we look at a show like cuties and the sexual nature of it. Uh, I've actually heard people make the argument that, well, this was, this was telling a story about the pressures of being a young girl and wanting to fit in and being willing to do whatever I can. I can understand that, uh, I can see that that's a real, but there's a risk reward to putting something out like this documentary as they're calling it, or this, this not documentary, sorry, this, this, uh, expression of what this, uh, you know, young and, and preteen life is like, the risk reward is completely imbalanced. We know that girls are exploited and pressured very earlier in their life to be sexual beings so much earlier than they should be.

Um, and as such, we also know that there is a growing demand for younger and younger people to be involved in something sexually explicit, whether it's pornography or, or whatever else. So, as we talk about cuties, we have to ask ourselves, what are we, what are we most upset about? Are, are we most upset that Netflix showed it? Are we upset that it was ever made in the first place and won awards at a film festival? Um, I would even go one step back further. Now, I don't know if you've ever been in a commercial or on television. Um, but there's about five steps that you go through. One is you get there and it's, uh, it's wardrobe. And then the next is makeup. Then the next is sort of a scene cast, okay, this is what we're gonna do. This is what we should look like that's before you even, and talk to the director, uh, and then there is kind of the set design. And, and, and, and, and when you get out there, how you'll behave, and then the director gives you corrective direction.

These girls in this video are in this, this show are not only representing young girls, but they are young girls to make this film. That was five levels of adults that had to say, no, no. When you do that, I want you to put your finger in your mouth, or I want you to simulate a sexual act, or I want you to be lower on the ground. You know, it's disturbing just to create it. Um, and, and, and so we ask ourselves which part of that are we most concerned about and does it connect, uh, to the world of, of pornography or, or human trafficking, anything that's a trigger, uh, anything that, uh, that is sexually explicit, um, there is going to be some search for it somewhere. And I'll give you an example. Something is trivial as a video game. So Fortnite is a very popular their video game, adults, young people play it. Um, I don't know. It's probably, I dunno, 50 million across the world. Well, their servers went down in October of last year.

One of the most prominent pornography sites proudly in their ear yearend report showed that their search for, or Fortnite related themed pornography, I didn't even know there was such a thing, went up 170%. This is a video game. So if, if we don't stop our second and ask ourself, if exploitation is a trigger, and then that pushes us toward pornography and pornography is human. Traffickings greatest commercial, then I don't think we're asking the right questions. Uh, there, there's a real concern there. Now this isn't to, to say, everybody should cancel Netflix. If that's your personal choice, then Hey, uh, I support that if that's what you wanna do, but ask yourself also how much evaluation have I done with the streaming services. And we can pick Netflix, cuz we're talking about it. Uh, I did a little research because in one of our presentations, we talk about the algorithm and how it dumps down information that should line up with your algorithm for you to watch next.

To your point. I mean, it it's, you know, it's, it creates a demand. I mean, you, and, you know, Netflix or whoever could say that it's, it's there for enlightenment educational purposes, but in order to enlighten and educate, you know, that's, this is, this is the, the difficulty with something like sexually explicit material in order to enlighten and educate about sexually explicit material. They're choosing a path that, that means you have to expose people to sexually explicit material. It's like saying to someone, Hey, we, we wanna, we wanna enlighten you about the reality of drugs here. Try some, yeah, that's that that's what's happening. Um,

And, and, and when it's happening with somebody who's 18 or older, then we understand it's a portrayal. They've made an adult decision. Uh, and that is a different story. Now, when we take those same standards and we apply them to children, not even counting the, a number that auditioned, right, these are the ones that are in the show. There were so many that auditioned and had to go through the same dance routines. I mean, there's a multitude that we're not considering here. And this isn't about being pious and Mor morally judgmental. This is about health. This is about what is, uh, what is it? Measure of exposure and exploitation. That's a different category. Yeah.

Joe, your organization has developed, um, a timeline. Um, and I'd love for you to, to talk about that to our listeners. Uh, what do you mean when you talk about the timeline?

Yeah. Uh, the timeline is something that I developed because I think I just, wasn't smart enough to explain all of the areas that we're working on. Um, to me, I needed to, I needed to address the, if I was talking to a parent, I would've a very different conversation. If I was talking to a young person in a training, different conversation. If I was talking to a man on the street in handcuffs, like we were last night, that's a varied different conversations. So what we decided to do is to plot that on a timeline starting at nine years old. Well, why nine nine is the average age for first exposure to pornography. That's, let's just let that sit in.

There are so many levels of concern there, but so many times when we talk about trafficking or, or exploitation, we talk about either a boy or a girl. We've gotta understand if that nine year old is exposed to pornography, boy and girl, a couple things start to form their thought is, is crystallizing. Oh, I guess this is what it is to be a boy in a relationship. Yeah. Or I guess this is what it is to be a girl in a relationship that's heartbreaking. And, and, and they're not gonna tell anybody because of the violent and aggressive and, and shameful nature of what they might feel when they see it. So they're not gonna go to their parents for clarification. So now we've got kids that are seeing things that are a terrible representation of what love and sexuality is supposed to be, and we're seeing it over and over and it creates it.

So we move on up to timeline a little bit, uh, right around 13 years old, well, studies are showing more and more, uh, that if a girl is to be exploited, not trafficked, but to, to be exploited, uh, in America, it's happening around that age. And usually by somebody she knows. Um, so that is sad, but that's also about the same age that we're giving our kids smart phones. So unlimited access to everything and beyond after nine or 10 years old being their first exposure to, to pornography. So they didn't forget that they saw that that nine and then we gave 'em access to it. We fast forward a little bit and going up to about, uh, 15 years old, five, 15 years old, uh, we estimate about 80% of boys in middle school, high school have seen pornography or actively seeking it out and watching it now with that same segment, if we were to look at this timeline, let's say we had a hundred survivors in a room.

Um, we we'll, we'll call them females. Uh, and these are all females of those 100, the largest segment of them that were trafficked would be right in that age group, between 15 and 17. Um, and again, it's exploitation. And again, it's, it's a manifestation of what the demand is and beyond. And so then we go on up to 18 years old, Hey, congratulations, you're an adult. You're a man. Well, write a passage would be something like boys are going to strip clubs. You know, you can get into, I think it's six strip clubs in Houston at an, as an 18 year old, but you get your hand stamped cause we can't let you drink, but here you are, feel free to be a consumer of commercial sex. Um, that's also about the age that girls are aging outta the foster care system. And then finally, 21, uh, is one of the average ages, the, of first actual illicit sex purchase by buyers.

Um, and that's, that's something that we look at on bookends of the timeline that it's all related. And so we developed our programs to address each segment. Defend home is a workshop that we do, and it talks to parents and kids about hypersexual, uh, culture and making decisions about that. When we move up to defend hearts, that's how to work with somebody who may be struggling with an unwanted sexual compulsion. Uh, I'm defending a guy right now. We had a conversation this morning. He said, dude, I haven't watched porn in 17 days. And for some day a snicker at that for me, I said, when's the last time you hadn't watched porn for 17 days, he stopped. He was quiet. And he said, I can't remember, but it's been probably five or six years. This is a huge victory for him. That doesn't mean he is done and he's out of the woods. It just means that somebody came alongside and was willing to work with him in, uh, an, an empathy based and vulnerability based nonjudgmental way and work going forward. And then finally defend community. That's, that's a series of programs on how we, we address the illicit massage businesses, the over 300 in Houston, um, in a safe way. And we have the community rise up in a way that shuts them down and keeps 'em closed.

Joe, as people have their eyes open to the reality of, um, and the really the pervasiveness of, of pornography and our culture and how it not only harms the people who consume it, but it harms, uh, a whole world of people who are involved in the production of it. Hmm. As their eyes are open to this, that's, that's a, that's a, that's a lot of, uh, traumatic information to take in. Right? Yeah. Um, what are some of the things that you, you, uh, you suggest as a next step for those who are being enlightened to the reality of this problem?

Yeah, man, that, that is such an important question, Matt. Um, I've been to awareness presentations and I leave thinking, well, now I'm completely stirred up and worried and paranoid. What do we do about it? Right. Um, very early on when I was volunteering, I noticed that, um, so everything that we, we are really not so much awareness as we are preparedness. Yeah. We'll spend about the first 15 minutes of a presentation, letting you know, what the risks are, what the outlets are for trafficking. And even beyond that, you know, pornography or, or hypersexualized culture, but then we're gonna work on getting you equipped at that. So if it's love people, not pixels, you'd come to one of our workshops. If you're a parent that's concerned and you're hearing some of this for the first time. Um, we talk about, who's talking to your kid about sex, your family, about, about pornography, uh, how to talk to them about pornography and how to have some, uh, technology plans and agreed upon approaches to being a family in a hyper sexualized culture.

So that's defend har defend home, um, you know, defend hearts for us. Our training really does focus in on a, a method of how to connect people with lasting resources, whether it's a core group, whether it's therapy or whether it's just accountability partners. Um, and then if you are really worried about the bros or other things in our city, uh, defend community is a remarkable way to kinda learn more about action. We can take as communities to take back this territory, um, and do so in a safe but replicable way. Um, but there own many organizations that really have great resources. And if anybody ever has a question about how to get involved, they can email us at defender LP, np.org. And if we don't do it, we'll certainly connect you with one of our friends that does something that you might be interested in to learn more

And is LP, np.org, the place they can go to learn about all the services that love people, not pixels provides.

Yes. Yeah. Love people, not pixels.org. You can tell we got a pretty unique name. So it was very little chance of you typing and getting the wrong web web address. So it'll be LP np.org. And when that takes you, there, you'll actually have an opportunity to learn about, uh, the different pro that we do, but also to watch some videos, there's even a video on there that talks about how your brain has changed when you watch pornography. That's something that doesn't really come come about intuitively you, you don't realize that until you start to talk about it, because the fact of the matter is when your brain associates that screen what they're seeing with sex and sexuality, it changes something, our brains are neuroplasticity, right? They change. And so we create these neuro pathways and now I'm not identifying sex sexuality the way God intended with another person that I care and committed to now on association is to my phone or to that laptop or desktop.

So, and so there is a term called, uh, porn induced, erectile dysfunction for a minute. They're not, their mind is not connecting that person with sexuality and with intimacy, it's the device. And so there's a video on there that you can learn more about what that looks like and, and things that you can do to kind of reverse that. So we have some partner videos on there. We also have a number of, uh, of ways to get involved. If you decide that you want to be a defender, that's what we call our volunteers. If you wanna be a defender, you click on to become a defender and it gives you sort of a dropdown with some options to learn more. So if

You'd like to learn more, uh, about Joe's work with love people, not pixels, you can head to LP np.org, Joe. I'm so thankful that you took the time to be with us here on engaging truth. Thanks so much for

Being with us. Yeah, it was an honor. Thanks Matt.

Hey, and thank you for listening in, and before we go, just a reminder that if you have struggled with pornography, that if you're currently struggling with it, not only can you get help for that struggle through organization, like, like Joe's, but first and foremost, we'd love for you to know that you are forgiven and loved by our God that Jesus Christ has died for the things that you've done. He forgives the past, that's behind you. And he secures a future in which you walk in mercy and grace. And so our invitation to you is that you would enjoy and receive and believe that gift that there is mercy and grace for you, no matter what you've done in Jesus Christ. And may that gift give you peace tonight. And so we're able to meet again and have more great discussions like one on engaging truth. Bye,

Thank you for listening to this broadcast of engaging truth. Be sure to join us each week at this time to help support our ministry, contact evangelical life ministries, post office box 5 6 8, Cypress Texas 7 7 4 1 0. Or visit our website@elmhouston.org, or find us on Facebook at evangelical life ministries. Thank you.