Faith, Community, And Suicide Prevention

The following program is sponsored by evangelical life ministries.

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And welcome to another addition of engaging truth. I'm your host pastor John Kane with us today. We have Steve Moore and Steve is going to, uh, tell us a little bit about, uh, suicide prevention. Welcome to the program. Steve,

Thank you for having me,

Uh, tell us a little bit about your background.

I had people at the, just around the world, just doing things for us, putting up posters, trying to find Paul. Um, and then seven months later they found his body just half a mile from the, uh, his campus storm, uh, in a swimming pool. He had, uh, drowned himself and it was determined, definitely was a suicide. Um, the reason I mentioned all that is that because we were really trying to get the word out for him. I could not hide from the suicide and this was front page news in Chicago newspapers. It was the first article it was missing. And, uh, also we were working with the immediate trying to find him. So when he died or when they found the body again, it was front page news. So there was no hiding. Uh, I had to, you know, talk about it at his funeral service.

I encourage his, uh, the pastor to talk about it because we were, you know, wanted to make sure that, uh, there's thing called contagion. We don't want young people to somehow glamorize it. So from the beginning, I really became a person that wanted to, had to talk about suicide. And so pretty quickly after, uh, we discovered that he had died by suicide. My wife and I, uh, went to a walk with the American foundation for suicide prevention, uh, which, uh, has these walks around the country they're called outta the darkness community walks, uh, you know, the idea outta the darkness. You wanna bring suicide outta the darkness, uh, community, you know, these are in little communities around the country and there's 400 of them right now. Uh, but also it's a community of people that are in touch by suicide. Either they've lost someone or they're struggling themselves.

Well following, uh, COVID lockdowns and, and the problems be, uh, caused by that. I imagine there has been a significant increase in hopelessness and maybe as a result of that, um, suicides as well. So, uh, your advocacy and, and trying to, uh, provide people other, um, other options is, is wonderful. I understand you're gonna be giving a presentation soon at the best practices conference out in, in Arizona. How, how did that come about?

Well, uh, after I, uh, left my legal practice a couple years ago, um, I was planning to just have a slow retirement, uh, but, um, I found an app opportunity to, uh, become their first executive director. And, uh, it was to me, just a, a perfect opportunity, you know, I get to do their finances, their, uh, accounting. I set up their all database for donors. I've I designed their webpage. Uh, I've just been enjoying the work and the, their mission is to bring the Africa to a Christ-centered life, uh, through housing education, um, healthcare and employment. And it's a very, I wanna say business oriented in the sense that they want results. Uh, and you know, so we've got a, a model that, uh, is pretty effective. We've worked very closely with a, uh, a church in South Africa that, uh, is in, uh, um, is affiliated with the, uh, LCMS.

Uh, and so it's, uh, the Senate, I, the entire Senate there in, in that province, uh, is an association with LCMS. And so we've worked with them, uh, in one particular town in, uh, near Middleburg, uh, South Africa, but also the, uh, the pastor there that, uh, started that church is it's expanded, uh, the Senate to many other churches in that, uh, surrounding province. And so we're trying to help some of those churches get set up, uh, to also, uh, establish preschools, uh, grade schools like we did in, uh, Middleburg, a lot of the work that, uh, we've done there, uh, is working with the, uh, schools, uh, so helping students there cause COVID has hit that business bad few, maybe worse than the us. And so it's affected the ability of parents to work and pay tuition. So we've been putting a lot of effort into raising funds to, you know, really keep schools afloat so they can have the parents can afford the tuition.

Uh, and also, you know, this is a very, a carve organization when they helped build the school. They built, uh, a health clinic right onto campus of the school. And so, you know, we've been working with local, uh, healthcare organizations to bring in dental care. Um, you know, student, uh, healthcare, uh, checkups are done there. We're trying to really expand that, do quite a bit more. We can work with the local hospitals for, um, you know, maternal care, um, you know, testing for, uh, diseases. You know, there's a lot we can do there. Um, and like I said, the other ideas are, uh, they work with is employment and, uh, housing. So it's a, uh, organization's done great work in South Africa that, uh, you know, and, and also Uganda, we've got some work in Uganda that we working on and, uh, in both, uh, there's just so much to do. And, but the people are just, you know, so appreciative of what we're doing. And, um, you know, you know, the motto of, of COFA is, uh, you know, you know, is, uh, creating opportunity. You know, we want to really give them the opportunity. Uh, and all we do is give them the education, give them the housing, give them the appointment and they take it from there.

So really you have two, uh, focuses. You've got, uh, you are the executive director as I think you said of Christian outreach for Africa. And then you also, um, are active in, uh, suicide prevention as well. That's a, that's a, a wide variety of, uh, things to keep you occupied in your,

Yeah, I guess I didn't answer your question. The reason I got involved in best practices is obviously because of the connection with COFA, um, you know, we come here every year for our annual meeting. Uh, many of the board members of COFA are ministers in LCMS and they go to the conference. And so we decided years ago to just go, go ahead and open the meeting here in Phoenix the day before the conference begin. Uh, so I was coming to town anyway. Uh, we have a table at the conference cuz we were trying to spread the word about our ministry. Uh, and hopefully other pastors will see it and, you know, come by and, uh, you know, work with us. Uh, but you know, since I was gonna be there and because of my knowledge of, and work in trying to bring out word of, uh, suicide prevention, I decided that this is something that faith communities need, uh, in, is a great opportunity to bring suicide prevention to, uh, an organization, you know, organizations such as, you know, pastors, Antifa leader really has an ability to, or has a lot of roles that, uh, they will be touched by suicide prevent suicide.

Um, so, you know, that's why I came out here.

So why do you think, uh, faith leaders are the ones to incorporate suicide prevention in, uh, in with other ministries?

Well, uh, first of all, you know, they may in their counseling, uh, see people that are at risk, uh, and it's important that they understand the risk factors and the warning signs, uh, so they can identify someone who's at risk, but also to understand what they're doing next. Uh, you know, for example, there's a myth that you don't wanna ever ask someone if they're considering suicide, which is exactly opposite. You know, the first thing you should be doing when you think someone may be considering taking their life as to say, are you thinking of taking your life? Have you made a plan? Uh, what have you accumulated the things you need to do? Have you attempted already, uh, these are questions you just have to ask and it's, you know, in case after case that is, people are willing to then bring out and start talking about it and virtually never will put the idea in their mind that they hadn't thought of before.

Um, so it's important just to, uh, you know, really for pastors, any faith leader to that does counseling that has people in front of them that may, you know, want to be talking about their personal issues. Um, or even just, even if they're not coming into counseling, maybe they see them in meetings and suddenly they don't seem be, uh, seem to be as, um, involved as a before, or perhaps, you know, they hear rumors that they're not, uh, coming out with, uh, friends anymore and doing some things they used to do, you know, any changes in behavior that could be, uh, in indication of something like depression, uh, anxiety, it's important that faith leaders get the training to understand those and then know what to do with it. Now that's the, the first of all, what would call prevention? But the second one is post prevention.

Uh, unfortunately in this day, uh, there will be suicides in a church community and pastors, faith leaders need to know what to do next. Maybe they're gonna be having to work with the family, uh, in counseling, perhaps they have to plan what the service will look like. You know, clearly some always when not wanted to do what I did and make it, you know, broadcast, but, uh, that, but they've gotta work with them and find out what their desires are. Um, and then the entire, you know, church community, you know, whether you want it or not, it's gonna be out there. They're gonna know about it. And you know, it's important that at some point somehow with the family's approval, um, faith leaders deal with it with the entire community. Uh, and the messaging is so important. You know, it's important that we make that message that suicide, there should not be a stigma against the person that died, uh, or the family themselves.

Um, 90% of the people that died by suicide had some sort of a mental health condition or substance use disorder. Uh, and it's so really suicide is the end result of disease. And so you don't sting it stigmatize people that have died by cancer, uh, or heart disease. In fact, you know, the best way to put this is when people use the word commit suicide, it gives an indication, it was a voluntary action. That's bad, you know, I'm an attorney and you commit a crime. Uh, you know, it's a legal doctrine. Uh, you don't want to use that with suicide. When you think about it, a mental health condition that led someone to it, it's the same as a heart condition that led to a death. Uh, they died by suicide. They died by cancer. They died by heart attack. Again, they died by suicide.

So that kind of messaging is important for faith leaders to really work with their community, um, after a suicide. And for the, the role that I think is many ways, the most important is what I would call a public health role. You know, faith leaders can really start the communication with their entire congregation on mental health and get again that stigma of mental health people not wanting to reach out and get help. Uh, you know, it's important that people understand that mental health, uh, is just as important as physical health. And if you're feeling mental health disorder, you go go to a doctor, uh, just like you would go to a doctor when your heart is acting up. Um, you go to a psychologist, you go to social worker, you go to someone and can deal with it. Uh, maybe you go to your pastor, uh, but you want people to take that first step of trying to recognize that mental health is just as important as, uh, physical health. So those are all kind of the roles prevention, postvention, and then sort of the public health role in the messaging or things that I think it's important for faith leaders to understand

For, uh, people of faith. I point out that, uh, suicide is not the unforgivable sin. Uh, it was heavily stigmatized, uh, years ago, but as you're pointing out, Steve that's, uh, uh, it's, it's not good. It's not healthy to, uh, try and stigmatize, uh, someone who is obviously, uh, mentally in pain. And so, um, no, I, I think our understanding of suicide and how to deal with it and the aftermaths, um, has a lot more gospel to it than it used to.

I, I think that in certainly every denomination has started recognizing that, you know, for years, many, you know, jury, you know, as you said, stigmatized it, uh, and, uh, considered it, you know, a, a sin that was unforgivable as you put it. Um, now it's recognized that, um, who are we to say, you know, who are we to say that this person is not in the eyes of God, someone worthy of heaven? Um, so, you know, there are just no way that any of us can make that determination.

Right. Right. Yeah. Why don't you talk about some of the resources that are out there, because if, if a person is dealing with, let's say a family member or close friend who is contemplating suicide is probably wise to get, uh, some, some real quality help, uh, from a number of resources quickly.

Yeah. I mean, the, uh, there are a couple of resources out there, certainly, you know, actually, you know, my organization AFSP, uh, it has a, a lot of, um, resources for people. You code a fsp.org. Uh, you would see their, um, all sorts of, uh, ideas for people that are at risk. Also for people that have lost someone, you know, there's resources there. For example, they list the, uh, different support groups in an area you can put in your zip code and find a support group of people that, um, have lost someone, this suicide. Um, that's really what, you know, my wife and I did immediately after Paul died. And it was just an absolute life saver. You know, you've got a group of people that, uh, have gone through the exact same thing. It's a safe space to, you know, talk with people that, uh, are experiencing the same thing.

Um, so, you know, there's resources again for, uh, prevention and, uh, you know, post suicide there. Um, there are other, you know, certainly if someone is really at risk and you're afraid that they're, um, you know, going to be, uh, you know, taking their life immediately, number one, don't leave them. Uh, but, uh, the other thing to do is to just go ahead and, you know, call 9 1 1. I mean, that's kind of a, um, the kind of thing needs to be done, uh, to, you know, kind of start the process that, uh, but the other one that is a little bit, you know, if it's someone that is just considering it and you think that they need to talk professional, uh, there's a, a crisis hotline called, um, the national suicide prevention lifeline. It's 802 7 3 talk, and that's, uh, 2 7, 3, uh, and that's 24 7. There are people counselors there that, you know, can really talk with someone who's considering suicide and work with them.

Uh, they've got the resources, the local resources that can give them help of how to reach out to mental health professionals in their area. Uh, there's also a text line. I mean, youth, you know, young people do not like to call, uh, they'd rather text. And so, uh, if you just text the word talk, D D a L K, uh, to, uh, 7 4 1 7 4 1, uh, and that's a, a text line and, uh, you will, you know, pretty much in the way that works because you're texting, uh, they've done algorithms. And when they see certain combinations of words, doesn't have to be suicide. If they see, you know, uh, I'm not too sure what they are even loss of hope, uh, thinking of ending it, uh, um, no one cares anymore, whatever those algorithms have come up with when it comes up danger, danger, uh, they get someone that's trained in suicide prevention to immediately get on that text line and start talking, uh, you know, texting back and forth.

Uh, so, you know, those are the, you know, really, so again, the, the, the Highline, the, the crisis text line, and then 9 1 1, if it's a serious issue, but the, the, the bottom line is if it's a situation where someone truly seems to be at risk, do not leave them, you know, make those calls right there and wait, uh, you know, for someone to come or, you know, if you've got a doctor or a psychologist, if they're working with, again, talk to them, make an appointment, make sure it gets followed up. Uh, you know, it's important to follow up on all these things to show you care. Um, and that's the most important thing when talking to someone considering suicide, you don't talk at them. You really listen. Uh, you, you know, feel, uh, try to show that you understand what their concerns are. It, you can't really talk someone out of a suicide side.

There's kind of a, a mental blinder or a, a tunnel vision that they will have. And it's much more important just to show you're concerned and that, uh, you are gonna be with them and stay with them. Uh, and when you do reach out for help you follow up on that, and you make sure they made those appointments, you check in out, just checking in, uh, is so important. So, you know, those are some of the shorthand things that need to be done for suicide prevention, but there's a lot more out there. You know, there are many resources, you know, people that, uh, are interested in taking training for it. You know, AFSP has a thing called talk, saves lives. It's about a 45 minute presentation. You just go to any of the local chapters and they'll come out and do that. Uh, there's a lot of more sophisticated day long, uh, things there's a thing called assist. Um, uh, safe care is another one. Um, you know, there's many different, uh, mental health, uh, uh, training. Uh, these are all things that are out there that, uh, if you just, you know, do suicide of prevention, training, Google at that, you'll find something in your neighborhood.

So what's the aspect of faith. Can faith play a role, uh, in

Absolutely. Yes. Um, and I'll go back to my son, you know, when Paul was missing, uh, one of the first things my wife did was, uh, start wearing an, an necklace with the charms of faith open love. So she had a cross, uh, an anchor and a heart, uh, and you know, that was getting her really through the days he was missing after we discovered it was a suicide. Now she continued to wear it. Still wears it today. She's probably gone through two or three different sets of charms since then that keep falling off. But, uh, you know, the idea of faith hope and love for suicide is, is so important. Um, just for example, on hope. Um, I, among other things, I run a, uh, a charity fundraising team for AFS speech, Chicago marathon, and I've designed, shareds called race for hope. Um, AFSP motto is bringing hope, uh, to those affected by suicide.

Um, hope is so important. In fact, one of the major causes of people considering suicide is loss of hope. Um, and hope is something churches and faith can give, um, faith can give hope. Um, and it also, the other thing that church communities give is that sense of community. Uh, if there's one thing again, that, uh, is something that is common to people that are considering suicide, it's a feeling of aloneness, uh, but a church community, uh, is, can really show someone that they have people and friends that care about them. Uh, and so involvement in a church community is really a, a good measure of, uh, protection. Um, you know, one of the things that we do in suicide prevention, we spend a lot of time talking about risk factors, you know, things that can cause someone to be at risk for suicide, um, various, uh, physical, mental, environmental conditions, but something that we don't probably spend enough time on is preventive, uh, factors.

You know, one of the strongest preventive factors is just community. If you have a sense of community fee, uh, you can, you know, really avoid some of the issues that could lead someone to consider that they have no hope that, uh, there is no reason for them to consider, uh, going on. So, uh, you know, shared communities can bring that sense of faith and hope and that sense of community, uh, particularly in that's where, when we get back to that public health model, it's important to when you have people that seem to be outside of the community, bring 'em in, try and get them involved, get them, uh, active, um, that can be as much of a preventive suicide factor as anything out there, just getting people involved and knowing that there are others out there that, that love them.

We'll come back to Steve in just a moment. But first I'd like to, uh, direct our listeners to come visit our radio program website, Elm houston.org. There, you can read more about us. You can, uh, download podcasts of our past radio programs. You can also find shortcuts to our Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube accounts. You may also donate to support our work. All the on the air hosts are volunteers. So your donations really do go far to help us purchase radio air time. We strive to have a wide variety of interesting interviews with, uh, people who are creative sharing the faith in Jesus Christ and this, uh, intersection where faith meets a life sometimes as Steve is telling us it, uh, it can be hard sometimes. So we need the strength that the faith gives us. It may also write us at, uh, M PO box 5, 6, 8, Cypress, Texas 7 7 4. Oh. So Steve, are there any, uh, any final lessons that you could give to us that, uh, help us to guide us? Maybe I should say to, to deal with someone who might be considering suicide?

Um, again, the most important thing is to listen, uh, to provide hope, uh, and that sense of community. You know, when I mentioned, um, you know, one of the reasons I, I, I also talked about sort of that seven months when son was missing, that really gave me an appreciation for community. Uh, the people that had, I had never met before, but who were triathletes, I had seen on the internet or that I was a part of a group. They never knew me yet. They were out there, you know, making dozens of copies of his poster and running it out to, uh, concerts told him, Hey, he might be here. Um, my wife's church, um, my brother's churches, uh, triathletes, we put together a, uh, YouTube video. And, you know, I determined that the best way to get, uh, it go viral was to have it have a lot of views quickly.

Within the first hour, we had 800 people looking at it because we had that sense of community. Um, it, it, it, it's just so important. And these are people that did not know me yet because they were either part of my triathlon community or my wife's church community, my brother's church community. Um, they wanted to help. Uh, so I, I became a real big proponent of a sense of community being a protective factor. And, you know, when I, uh, speak at the AFSP out darkness, community walks, I always parse those words out, darkness, community walk. And when I get the community, uh, that's the lesson. I try to give that, yes, we are in your little community here, but there's also a community of suicide survivors, suicide people that are considering suicide. And, uh, you have your communities, you work in where you put, where you've gone to school.

These are all communities that are important to you and stay connected to them. You know, those communities are the most important protective factor and make life worth living, you know, it's that community that makes life wonderful. Um, so you know, those seven horrible, horrible months for me, um, taught me the importance of community. And I just can't emphasize that enough for, um, faith communities, how important you are to your members and to your congregation, and, um, bring them in when they seem to be on the outside, try and bring 'em in. Uh, it's just so important to reach out and make them part of your life.

Thank you for, uh, the work that you do. Give us once again, uh, the website of, uh, AF FSP.

Yeah. AFSP is a, a fsp.org. And if he was interested in Kristen outreach, that one is Africa outreach.org.

Okay. Very good. Steve, again, thank you for all that you do. And to our listeners, we hope that you'll join us again real soon for another edition of engaging truth.

Thank you for listening to this broadcast of engaging truth. Be sure to join us each week at this time, to help support our ministry, contact evangelical life ministries, post office box 5 6, 8, Cypress, Texas 7 7 4, or visit our website Elm houston.org, or find us on Facebook evangelical life ministries. You.