Episode 23: Lutherans for Life

The following program is sponsored by evangelical life ministries.

Welcome to engaging truth, the manifestation of God's word and the lives of people around us. Join us each week. As we explore the impact of his message of spiritual renewal from the lesson of forgiveness Fords in the crucible of divorce, to the message of salvation learned by an executioner from a condemned killer to the gift of freedom found in the rescue of victims of human trafficking. This is God's truth in action.

Welcome to engaging truth. I'm your host, Matt Papa viz. And with me on the program today is Laura Heminger. Uh, she's a mom, she's a wife. She lives in Washington. She's doing this interview with us here in Houston, by the power of technology and zoom. She's also passionate about life, life at all stages. It's led her to work with groups like Lutherans for life and Laura, welcome to engaging truth.

Thank you for having me today.

Uh, so Laura, where does your, your, your, your advocacy or for the unborn, where does your, your passion on this topic of, of, of, uh, of life being valued and cherished at all stages, especially in the womb, where does this, where does this come from for you?

I think I started with a really good foundation. Um, and I talked to when I used to work with students, I talked to them about this a lot, the importance of that strong found, you know, I'm I'm for life because that's what I was taught through. Just learning the basics about how God feels about people, how he created us, how he loves us, how he sent Jesus to die for us. I think that started to connect more with issues in the world when I was probably around junior high age, um, maybe a little younger, I think I heard the word heard on the radio, something like that. I asked my dad, who's a pastor in the Houston area, um, asked about, well, what does that mean? I've never heard of that before. And when abortion was explained to me, it was instant that I already knew that it was wrong.

Um, I tell people all the time, kids don't have to be taught that it's wrong. You just have, have to teach 'em what's right. And then when they hear about what's going on in the world, they can make that connection themselves pretty easily. Um, and that's how it was for me. And I mean, I lived in a small town. I didn't really, it wasn't around me. There wasn't anything going on. Um, but that changed when I got to college, I went to Texas a and M and probably my first, first week on campus, I was walking through one of the main areas of campus. And everyone's trying to get you to join their club or their organization or something like that. And there was a group called the coalition for life and they yelled out, are you, you know, do you love babies? Are you pro-life?

And I was like, well, of course I am . So I went over their table and they said, so do you wanna pray in front of abortion clinics? And I said, no, . And I walked away. Um, I was like, that's not for me. That's not what I want. Um, so I kind of put it in the back of my mind, but it was still still there. Um, a few weeks later, the pastor at the campus Luther church there asked me if I would head up, um, and organize our church's block of hours for praying in front of the abortion clinic. And I kind of took that as a sign that maybe I should check it out. So I went once, um, thinking I'm gonna go, this is gonna be terrible, a waste of time and I'm gonna leave. Um, and instead I was greeted by what's called a sidewalk, counselor, someone who's trained to talk to the women as they go in and out of the clinic to their cars, offer them advice, offer them materials, offer them compassion.

She greeted me with a hug by name said she was so glad it was there. And I saw immediately that in my mom, what I had seen as confrontational and hateful, um, protesting actually was a beautiful expression of love and compassion to women who weren't necessarily getting that. Um, and so I ended up being a long time. Volunteer, went and prayed for many hours, many weeks over the next five years while I was in school. Uh, and that was kind of the start of realizing that there was something I could do about it, um, that I didn't have to be mean to do it, that I didn't have to be confrontational to do it. Um, and that there was a, there's a gap between what we see and what we hear in the media. And what's actually going on in front of clinics homes in churches, and that there are things steps we can take to serve people in their, in their moment of need so that they don't feel like they need to go into that clinic that day.

Laura, why should people of faith who, who may be hesitant to, you know, get political because it is, it is a politic issue as much as it's a healthcare issue or a theological issue for people of faith. Mm-hmm, , it's also a political issue and, and politics are, are, are so divisive and nobody wants to be divisive these days. Right. We've got enough of that. Uh, so there's a lot of hesitancy, I think, especially around people of faith to, um, to be too vocal, uh, in their support of, you know, say pro-life legislate or, or to just say that they are, you know, pro-life, uh, to express this belief in any way, shape or form. Why should, why should people of faith care about pro-life issues, um, and about the unborn?

Well, I think there's two parts to this. The first part is you can be pro-life and not be, you know, on political commentary and making millions of Facebook posts. You, you can do both. Um, I don't think just because someone's not vocal in a public way, doesn't mean that they're not doing their part in a private way. Um, so I think that's part of it. I think the first part is we, we need to look at what, how God sin, um, and how God talked about sin, um, through Jesus in his ministry. Um, I've talked to a lot of students who are afraid to speak up because they don't want people to think they're judgemental. Um, they don't wanna be judged. That's part of it. But I, I think in, especially with our youth today, there's more of a fear of coming across as judgemental than even being judged themselves.

Um, that's the worst thing that someone could think about you is that you're judgemental that you're telling them what to do. Um, so we look at how did Jesus approach sin? Um, there's great examples. There's a woman at the, well, there's the, there's the woman accused of adultery, um, who was about to be stoned and Jesus didn't ignore the sin. He always addressed the sin. Um, but he didn't stop there. He gave them a way out of their sin, a new way to worship or go in sin no more or Zuki is teaching him how to live his life differently. And we saw that in those encounters, their life lives were different. Um, and so that's what the church should be doing, not ignoring sin, um, not swooping under the rug. That's a political issue. I'm not gonna deal with that, but addressing it the way Jesus would calling it out when we see it, addressing it, where we see it, but showing that there's a reason to do it differently, there's a way to do it differently, the through Jesus and through his love for us.

Um, so that could mean educational opportunities to share the truth about what's going on to share about prevention, things like that. Um, but it's also serving your neighbor, getting involved in local pregnancy centers that serve women in these situations and providing them a alternative to the terrible choice to end the life of their child. Um, we have to be the hands and feet of Christ, not just saying what's wrong, but also providing the way out of that sin. Um, it's changing the way we think about Pregnan even those. And especially those unplanned pregnancies used to talk to, um, youth directors about what would you do if a student came to you and said, I'm pregnant, what would your reaction be? Um, would it be, oh my gosh, what are we gonna do? Would it be condemnation? Or would it be yay, a baby? Which no one thinks to say, yay a baby in that situation.

But I actually think that's, that's the best response. The baby's always a good thing. The circumstances might not be ideal. What got you, there might not be ideal. Um, but the baby's always a blessing from God, God made that baby. So you celebrate the life and then you deal with the situation mm-hmm . Um, so it's kind of changing that way of thinking and in doing so we can be the hands and feet of Christ. So we should care because Christ cares, Christ cares about all of its children. Um, and the sin of abortion is no greater than any other sin we deal with, but it can have greater consequences. And we want to show that love of Christ to people. So first of all, they don't have to deal with those consequences by giving them an empowering them with the ability to make a different choice, but also loving them and serving them even when the choices have already been made.

Hmm. And we have to keep in mind that, uh, you know, when, when the Lord arrived to save this world, he, he arrived. You, you could say he, he arrived as an unplanned pregnancy. Mm-hmm to, to a young, um, and a surprised mother. And yeah,

I always, I always love to tell, you know, I call it, call it, the Jesus was a fetus story. Yeah. And Mary and Elizabeth, and there, you know, John, the Baptist leaping for womb leaping in the womb for joy at being in the presence of a savior, which shows that the unborn can have faith. It's an amazing story.

Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and there's just, there's just some incredible, you know, we're, we're, we're in January, we're, uh, we're today, as we're having this conversation, uh, it's epiphany on the Christmas calendar, which celebrates the, the revelation of Jesus to the world. But we just came out of the Christmas season, which is about, um, Jesus, um, being, being born into this world and, and his, his birth to, to a, an engaged, but not yet married woman. Right. Mm-hmm, a young woman at that. Uh, there, there can be, if you choose to see it through the eyes of faith, especially if you're a young woman who's maybe had an abortion or who is wrestling with an unplanned pregnancy, incredible solidarity between the savior and you mm-hmm . Um, and, and, and how much God values, um, uh, a, a young woman like Mary, and to, to, to choose to have that be the vessel through which he's gonna enter into this world.

Um, certainly we can say that that's, uh, that the Lord, the Lord loves, uh, a young woman who is, um, facing something she didn't plan and, uh, something she feels ill-equipped for, uh, the Lord, the, the Lord loves you if you're in, in that state. And you're certainly, certainly not alone, which, which leads me to my, my, my, my next question for you is, you know, uh, certainly there are somebody who's, there, there are people who are listening to this, who, um, are on the other side of abortion. They've, they've, they've had one, or maybe it's a young man who's been, uh, complicit in, uh, procuring an abortion for a, for a woman in his life. Um, and they're under a mountain of, uh, of guilt of, uh, of, of shame. Uh, they're, they're trying hard to rationalize what they've done. Um, uh, but ultimately what they need is they need, they need a word of, of grace and mercy and forgiveness. What is Laura, as, as you've come to understand it and articulate at the times, I'm sure to others, what is the gospel to someone who, um, who has, um, experienced abortion?

The, the gospel is the gospel. It's the same, no matter what's in our past, no matter what we have done, um, Jesus Christ went to the cross for the sin of abortion, just like he went to the cross for the sin of lying for the sin of deceit, for the sin of theft, all the other sins that we deal with every day in our life. Um, I don't think God sees one sin as worse than another, which I think is a mistake. We make a lot of times as people we try to, we try to gauge them and say, oh, this is so much worse. Um, and having spoken to many, many women, um, and men who have dealt with abortion in their past, I think that sometimes that's a message that they're not getting, um, whether intentionally or unintentionally by the church. Um, there's one woman in particular that shared that she continued going to church for years after her abortion.

Um, and she sat in that pew every day, thinking that God forgave all of her sins, except for the sin of abortion, because the pastor never took, talked about it. The pastor never spoke that word of gospel specifically to her and to her sin. And the first time that one did her entire life changed, um, she was released from a burden that she had been feeling for decades. Um, so that goes back to your original question about why would she care? Um, and it's because they need to hear that message, not just a general message, but sometimes that message needs to be directly spoken to them. And there's so many things that we can do to encourage that, even just a simple mention and a sermon or a mention in a prayer. Um, but beyond that supporting ministries, there are ministries out there that do, um, counseling and psycho logical and emotional and spiritual support and help to men and women who have abortion in their, in their past. A lot of times organized through local pregnancy centers and, um, churches and things like that. And making your F your church, your, your home available to groups like that, um, is, could be a wonderful blessing to the men and women who need it most

Is the pro-life movement growing right now. Uh, especially I ask among young younger people, uh, is, is, is the emerging generation of young adults? Are they, are they more, um, understanding of, of a pro-life perspective, um, or are they just accepting the reality of abortion as kind of a, a human right, and a necess and a medical necessity necessity in this world? Uh, where does the pro-life movement stand, especially among young, younger people from your perspective?

I, I absolutely think it's growing and not just anecdotally, but the data we we've seen some shifts, um, a group called students for life did a survey, uh, a few years ago that showed how pro-life view growing among, um, on young people. The interesting thing, what I said earlier about it being nuanced, um, when you look at the data, it's not necessarily, if you say, are you pro-life that the majority of people say, yes, I'm pro-life, but if you get down into the details, that's when you see where people's feelings really are. Um, there's some really interesting data that Gallop poll has put out that shows the vast majority of people, young people, especially support limits on abortion. So most people think once the baby has a heartbeat, um, a lot of them don't realize that the heartbeat is at 18 days . Yeah, but they think that, that once the baby has a heartbeat, maybe we shouldn't have abortion.

Um, even more think at three months after first trimester, there shouldn't be abortion, um, up to about 80% of people who don't think that elective abortion in and of itself should be allowed. Um, in, in, in most cases, um, most people in, in the United States have that view, that elective abortion. So for instance, I don't have enough money to have a baby, or I don't want a baby, or, um, I already have enough kids, those kind of reasons, which are reasons that women cite for choosing abortion. Mm-hmm , um, that those are not reasons to have abortion. They, they look more towards rape incest, health problems, things like that, um, which are actually pretty rare in terms of why people seek an abortion. Um, so I think the data kind of supports that, but just anecdotally, I've seen the, the passion that the young people have about the abortion issue.

If you are to ever attend the March for life in Washington, DC, probably 75% of the attendees are college, age and younger. Um, you have huge buses of college students and high school students coming to March for life every year. Um, and it grows every year. I've led personally, I've led groups of 30 to 40 students, eight years in a row to the March for life, um, Lutheran young people coming to visit the March for life. Lutherans for life has a, has an event for young people, um, wife for life in Washington, DC. Um, and in the first year I did it, we had 75 attendees. Um, and I know that number has increased since I have passed on to their new director. Um, so yeah, I think there's a lot of enthusiasm and I think there's a lot of reasons for it. Um, the, the science has changed.

Um, we know a lot more, you talk to people, my parents' age, who they had maybe one ultrasound with one of their kids, and it was because something was wrong. Um, versus now I've had three ultrasounds and I've gotten to see my baby moving and sucking his thumb and kicking. And I, I got to see all of, I got to see his face, um, and see, oh, he is kind of got Wesley's profile, those kind of things. And you see him on the refrigerator at work and people sharing them online. So we can see inside the womb in a way we didn't. Um, and it's harder and harder to deny what is actually happening inside of a woman when the science is so very clear. Um, even things like gender reveal parties, um, point to the humanity and what we are looking forward to when, when we get to meet that child. So I think the, the, the science and the culture has given a new appreciation to the unborn. Um, I think there's been some really key debate politically that have led to that that's kind of awakening to what's going on. Um, but I still think there's a lot we can do. .

What do you say to those who are, uh, critical of, of pro-life Christians, um, saying that Christians are selectively pro-life that that to be pro-life is, is not mirrored to be pro unborn life, but that it is mm-hmm , it needs to be applied more broadly and more consistently. Um, there, there are those who say that you, you, that those who claim to be pro-life are, are merely anti-abortion because if they were truly pro-life, they'd be about, they'd be about, um, uh, protecting the quality of life, um, outside of the womb for, for other people and other things. Um, do, do, do you, do you agree with any of that? What, what, what do you might, might you say in response to that? I'm sure you've come up against that in your conversations

Over the years. Yeah. I mean, so the, the new debate, I guess, argument I've had with someone recently, it was over the word itself pro-life and where it came from. Um, and I think you can, you can focus on that a little bit. Like, so when I say I'm pro-life, what does it mean? And who gets to define what that means? Is it people who disagree with it or the people who are actually in the movement dealing with it? So I would say, first of all, you have to define the term and the general politically recognize understanding of pro-life is anti-abortion and that's okay. I, I think that's okay to say as a, in politics, my focus is ending abortion. Um, I think it's okay to have that priority. Politically people have all kinds of political priorities, whether it's racial justice, whether healthcare, whether it is, um, the environment, people have their political priorities and that's okay.

Everyone's heart is led somewhere by the spirit to focus on a specific issue. So I think the first thing is just because you care particularly about one issue, it doesn't automatically mean that you don't care about other issues. I think the second part of it is it's absolutely true. If you are interested in ending abortion, that it can't end with a law saying abortion is illegal. Um, because you still have women who are in need, who are going to seek abortions, um, legal or illegal, um, and whether that's dangerous to them or not might vary in the circumstances, but it's always bad for them. And abortion is always bad for a woman. So no matter what happens with Roe Wade to the Supreme court or the Texas legislature, um, we still have work to do. Yeah. Um, and I would say it's a, it's a completely false accusation that Christians, especially pro-life Christians don't care about women, um, at outside of the womb, uh, or, or unborn babies outside of the womb.

Um, if that were true, you wouldn't have four times, five times as many pregnancy resources centers, mostly run by Christians that provide support most of them to women and their children two or three years out of the womb. So diapers, material goods, um, some even help with rent and finding jobs and job security and training and parenting classes, and the list goes on. So I, I think, I think the problem I see, um, in when people get accused of that is people are looking at how do you vote? And they think that if you don't vote, I say you should vote that you don't care about the things that I care about. Maybe it's just that they care about it in a different way. Maybe they see the responsibility is different. Um, and so I think as Christians, we don't wanna fall into that trap of defending ourselves too much. And instead just let our wor our actions speak louder than words and show that we care about women, whether it's by supporting them by how we vote. And more importantly, by how we, we serve in our communities and around us.

Yeah. And, and the actions of Christians on behalf of, of women and show them of particular throughout the, throughout the centuries. Mm-hmm, , um, has been, uh, profound and positive. Um, and, and, and people just have to take a look at history and say, you know, who's started the hospitals who's led the way in adoption. Who's launched the pregnancy help centers. Who's provided the food pantries. Who's provided the job search opportunities, as you mentioned. And the vast majority has been led by Christians, people of faith who are trying to apply their, their, their love for life. Believing. It's a gift from God that only God can give, and only God can take away, apply that love for life consistently throughout every area of life. Um, uh, they, they really they've really, really led the way, um, we, we've got about two minutes left. Um, if someone's listening and they want to, to learn more about, you know, being, being more, more active in, in pro-life in, in the pro-life movement, where, where would you point them to, where would you say they begin?

Um, I mean, not to give us shameless plug to my former employer, but I really do support, um, and just love the unique work that Luther's for life does. Um, we talked about people being hesitant to get involved politically and Luther's life is not political. Um, they're all about empowering the church, um, to be the hands and feet of Christ and speak for life with their words and with their actions. So look, um, go to their website, they have resources for churches, so churches can get more involved, um, just look on your local, um, local area and see if there's a pregnancy center. They might need some help, whether it's financially or whether it's volunteer work. Um, I got started with coalition for life. They work with a group called 40 days for life, which is the prayerful, um, vigils in front of abortion clinics. I think that's always an experience that people should have. It's not for everyone. I'm not gonna say that that's something that you have to do, but I, I think it's and encourage you to take that as an option. So that's a good starting point.

absolutely. And I'd encourage people to remember that, that there are several fronts at which they could, they could approach the, the, the topic of abortion and the reality, uh, of it. Um, and, and maybe that they wanna consider it from, from a healthcare perspective. Mm-hmm , and, and they need to realize that that, um, as a healthcare procedure, um, it does, abortion does incredible harm to women long term. Um, they could approach it from a political sphere, um, where politics should, should expand the rights of individuals, not take them away. And if, if an unborn child is a human life, then it is, it is entitled to the same protections under the law that every human life has, or they could look at it from a theological perspective that every human being is made in the image you got mm-hmm that life deserves to be cherished.

And so, so there are multiple ways in which to approach it. Um, and if you want to, uh, to begin wrestling with it, choose one that really resonates with you and then really dig into it. Um, and, uh, because it really is, it really is to say the very least the truly important topic, uh, that all thinking people, not just people of faith, but all thinking, people should really wrestle with really wrestle with us. Laura, thanks so much for, for being on the show. Thanks for being with us on engaging truth. Of course. Thank you. We look forward to talking to you again and thank you, listener, uh, for tuning in. We hope to, um, have you join us next same time, same station. Thanks.

Thank you for listening to this broadcast of engaging truth. Be sure to join us each week at this time, to help support our ministry, contact evangelical life ministries, post office Fox 5 6 8, Cypress Texas 7 7 4 1 0. Or visit our website@elmhouston.org, or find us on Facebook at evangelical life ministries. Thank you.