Mark Wuggazer is the newly installed Sr. Pastor at St. John Lutheran Church in Cypress, Texas. Prior to St. John, Pastor Wuggazer spent his entire ministry in the state of Michigan. He sits down with host Matt Popovits to give us an inside peek into what it’s like for a pastor to take a new call, say goodbye to a congregation he loves, and to trust God as he steps into something new.
Transcript
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Hey friends. Welcome to engaging truth. I'm your host, Matt Popovits. And with me on the program today is pastor mark. Woo gazer. He's the senior pastor at St. John Lutheran. Sure. In Cyprus, Texas, actually the brand new senior pastor at St. John Lutheran church in Cyprus, Texas. That's what we're gonna talk about today. What's it like for a pastor to make a transition from one ministry to another and not just a transition from one ministry to another, from one part of the country to another pastor mark. Welcome to engaging truth.
Thank you. Thank you, pastor. My Matt. Happy to be here.
It's so great to have you with us. So, so, so, so talk to me, you you've recently made this transition. You were a pastor, uh, for several years in, in the great state of Michigan, which is my home state as well. And then now you find yourself, uh, way down to the other side of the country in Houston, Texas. Uh, how long were you a pastor in Michigan?
I had two calls in Michigan. Uh, one was at the church. I grew up at Redeemer Lutheran in Birmingham, and I was there for, uh, 13 years. I started as a lay youth director and then went to the seminary in the middle of that returned as youth pastor. And, um, so I guess I was pastor there for three years and then went to, uh, St. Peter in McComb, Michigan. So same Metro area, but on the other side of the Metro area and I was there for eight years. And then, uh, I got the call to come here to St John and during that entire time, so I'm, I'm 55. I've been trying for 55 winters to get out of Michigan. And it finally happened. Uh, the Lord finally answered my call or my prayer with this call and, uh, really, really excited to be here.
Uh, we, uh, my, my family and we really miss Michigan, we miss our friends. We miss our church. Uh, there's, there's definitely grief and loss. Um, when you make a transition like this, but it's something that we came to understand through a lot of prayer and soul searching and talking to mentors and the right people we came to understand, this is what God wanted us to do you, and he made it very clear to us. And so when God makes it clear to you that, that he wants you to do something, you do it right. And so we're here and we're very excited and we're very happy to be here. Uh, he did not have to drag us kicking and screaming. We're really happy to be here and, uh, really happy. We're very excited about doing, uh, ministry. And, um, so yeah, I can go into any part of that, you know, go deeper, you know, wherever you, uh, to, to, for your
Audience. I, I, I I'd like to, I'd like to wrestle a little more with that whole notion of, uh, of praying through and, and thinking through this transition. Cause I, I don't think most people recognize, realize what goes into the, the decision for a pastor to leave one congregation and, and go to another, um, it's, it's not the same as when, when someone who's not in the ministry, you know, leaves a job and goes to another it's, it's a, it's a, it's a different process. There's some similarities, but, but it's a, it's a, it's on the whole, largely different process. So, so give us, give us a broad view of, of what that process of, of shifting from one church to another looks like, did, did you put a resume out on, on indeed.com or something like that and say, Hey, I'm looking to be a pastor somewhere else.
How's this work? No, not at all, not at all, but you're right, Matt. It is very, very different. Uh, before I was a pastor, before I got into church work, I spent 11 years working in the radio business. I worked at several different radio stations in Detroit and New York city. And, uh, bounced around a few times, uh, was fired at least once. And, um, and it's a completely different thing because in radio business. And I assume that it's like this in, in, in for, for the vast majority of people in the vast majority of, of, of fields that, uh, you know, you, you go on an interview and it's very secret, right? You don't tell your boss, you don't tell anybody, you go on an interview and, uh, if you get the job, you know, you negotiate. And then once they give you the job offer, uh, you know, you generally have what, maybe 24 hours, maybe they'll give you the weekend.
Right. But you know, an employer wants to have an answer right away. And then you, you make your decision. And Monday morning you go in and you tell your, uh, your old boss that you're leaving. And, uh, you're giving two weeks notice. And, uh, a lot of times in a lot of fields and definitely in the radio business, you give two weeks notice, but you have about 20 minutes to put everything, all your personal stuff in a box and get out right. And, uh, and that's the way it was at at every, uh, every time I made a transition in the radio business and, uh, leaving one radio station and going to another radio station, you did it for the money. You did it for the, for the career move for the resume. And, and when you did, it was, it was fast and it was clean cut and you were gone. And so, so making this kind of transition in church work as a pastor, completely different experience.
So, so did the, did the church that you go to did, they're the ones who reach out to you. So, so it's not as, not that you went looking, but, but a church comes to you. You've got a position, don't look at
All. Yeah. And now you can, in the LCMS, you can, if you're a pastor and you wanna leave a church, or if you want to move to a different area of the country or something, you can call your district president and ask to be on a call list. I did not. I, I had not done that. So, uh, St. John came looking for me. Um, I had, uh, I, I knew the former senior pastor here, David Bond. I had known him for years, uh, talked to him in conferences and whatnot. So we had a relationship, although I don't think that that played any role. I don't think that he put my name forward. Uh, but also president Michael Newman, uh, president of the Texas district. Uh, he and I, uh, met at conferences and, and we had, uh, talked very briefly. I wouldn't say we had a, a very deep relationship or anything like that, but, uh, you know, we had shared small talk and, and whatnot.
And, uh, so, you know, he had asked me, uh, over a year ago, uh, if, uh, I would ever consider coming to Texas and, you know, it was small talk. Right. But I mean, the guy is, he's really, he's a really wonderful, uh, president of the Texas history is very, very blessed to have him as, as president. And, uh, and, and he said to me, I'll never forget this. He said, I'm trying to get all best pastors in the LCMS down here in Texas. Right. And I'm sure every DP says that every DP wants the best pastors in their, in their district. But the fact that he said that to me, um, I don't know. It just made a real impression. Yeah. And, uh, that, uh, within, uh, and then, uh, within weeks of that, I don't know. You might have heard there was this pandemic that came, right.
Yeah. And so, uh, but yet still, uh, about three, four months later here comes a call, uh, a phone call from the call committee here at St. John, uh, saying that I was on a call list. They received from the district. And, uh, I was, uh, uh, a little bit surprised cuz as I, I wasn't looking wasn't really, uh, I mean, when I say that I've been trying to get out of Michigan for 55 winters, that is true, but not really, uh, very often actively looking at this point, wasn't actively looking. And so when you get it, when you get the first interview, I, I, well, you know, I got nothing else to do. I'm locked at home. I remember the, the very first, uh, zoom interview that I had with the call committee here at St. John was on Memorial day on the actual Memorial day.
Right. Because we're all locked at home, everybody from Texas to Michigan locked at home, uh, nobody's out, you know, grilling dead animals at somebody's house.
John and what's right by the Ru Geer family, but we have to do what's right by St. Peter, which is something you never, you never think about when you're changing jobs. At least I never did when I was changing jobs in, in the radio business. Yeah. It was, uh, you know, what's best for me. What's gonna, you know, is this job pay more money? Is there more opportunity for advancement and I'll take it right. Um, and, uh, uh, Martin Luther once said, you know, an ambitious preacher is a pestilence to the church, right? So we as preachers, pastors, we don't, we're not looking to enhance our resume or get, you know, advance our careers or that kind of thing we're looking to do what's best for the kingdom. What's best for St. John what's best for St. Peter. And, uh, and of course what's best for the ezer family because my family is important.
That's my, that's a, that's a big priority. And so we started as, as things got, got closer and more and more serious with St. John, we started praying, okay, God,
So I, I, I mean, I don't know about you or any of your listeners, but there have been very few times in my life when God, when I was sure that God wanted me to do something. So, so what did he do? How did he make it? How did he make it clear to you? How did he hit you over the head with the frying pan? I'm so I'll try, I'll try to make this as, uh, as brief as possible, but first of all, okay, so praying and we're uh, I'm big on mentors, I'm big on support systems. So there's a lot of pastors that I have who are mentors to me that I reached out to. And, uh, and I sought wise council from, and uh, they all said the same thing. And not that, not that they just said, you know, you you've to go to Texas.
No, they, they, they asked me, they asked me questions about, um, how God had wired me for ministry and how that fits with St. Peter and how that might fit with St. John. And as we had those discussions, they all came to the same conclusion and they all said the same thing after talking to me. And I thought that was very interesting. And, uh, it was almost like, you know, God using the, the, uh, the, the, the, the prophets of the, of the pastors that, that, that had have been mentoring me, uh, to, to, to speak to me. And, uh, then we came down here to St. John to visit after receiving the call and we did due diligence and my wife and I, we asked trick questions now, not trick questions, but we had devised questions in ahead of time in advance. And we would ask these questions, the same questions to every group of people.
Yeah. The call committee, council elders, just random church members on Sunday morning in the lobby. And we got the same answers from every group. Yeah. And that told me, we're dealing with a very healthy situation. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I, I talked to, to pastor bond who's, you know, as I said earlier, had a relationship with your predecessor there at the yeah. And John, um, and spent a lot of time talking to him, asked him tough questions and, um, and, and got spiritual answers. I mean, answers that, that just spoke to the things that I had been praying about. And, um, and so everything was, was starting to really tug in that direction. Right. Yeah. And the more it tugged in that direction, the more why my wife and I prayed, okay, God, this is great. Right. But, you know, it's, you're gonna have to make it really clear to us.
Right. We just kept playing that really, really clear to us. And then, okay, this is, this is a funny story that I told, uh, my first Sunday here at, at St. John, it was part of the, uh, uh, part of my, my first sermon. Uh, and, and this is just so my wife and I had set a Saturday morning that we were gonna make the final decision. Right. We had been talking and praying, but we were gonna sit down. We got a babysitter for the kids. We said, we're gonna get outta the house and we're gonna go somewhere. And just the two of us, and we're going to, we're gonna pray. And we're gonna talk about every little aspect of this entire thing from the ministry to the move, to the kids, to school, to, you know, everyone talk all out, we're gonna take the, the legal pad and we're gonna draw the line down and write pros and cons on each side, we're gonna do the whole thing.
And then we're gonna pray about we're gonna come out with a decision mm-hmm
So Jen calls, animal, uh, rescue, you know, they're, they're closed. It's after five o'clock. So she calls the police department, the local McComb county Sheriff's department and said, this is not an emergency, but, and they said, oh, no, we're glad you called. And they sent an officer out. He was great. Just really, really professional, uh, you know, terrific guy. Uh, he's got the inside number to animal control. So he calls them and, um, they ask him some questions and they, they tell him that he's gotta put the animal down. Right. So we get the kids upstairs where they won't see, but I'm like looking out the window and he takes out his firearm and he fires one round into the goose and puts the animal out its misery. Right, right. Thing to do. 10 minutes later, animal control shows up, they clean up the entire thing.
It's gone. Right. We sit down, we have dinner, put the kids to bed. We're relaxing after, after, uh, putting kids to bed. And Jen, I don't know, for what reason she Googles, uh, what does it mean? Is it a sign if you come across a dead bird? Yeah. And so Google then returns the number one result, right? The Google's first, uh, you know, result and, you know, Google, it's not holy scripture. Mm-hmm
And I was like, well, wait a minute. You know, not only did we come across a dead bird, the died in our front lawn. And I think there's significance to this. It was killed ultimately by an official representative of McComb Michigan. Now, uh, I wanna make it clear that I, we did not come because a bird died in our front lawn
Like God kind of going out of his way to give you every possible thing. You'd need
To make this decision. Right, right. You're right. That he left no stone unturned. Yeah. I'm gonna, I'm gonna give him,
I'm gonna give him his friends, all telling him his wife's friends telling him, you should probably do this. I'm gonna give him a,
A long reason,
A long list of reasons in that yes. Column to do this. I'm even gonna give him a dead bird in the front yard. So he can't, he can't right. He can't run away from, he can't run away from this. He can't say I didn't, I didn't make it clear to you. So, so in this process, so God's made it clear to you. I gotta go to this new ministry. Um, how do you break the news to the church that you're serving? Because all, because during this whole time, the church you're serving is fully aware that you've received an offer, which is what we, we refer to it as a call to serve as a pastor somewhere else. And they love you. They want you to stay. Of course. Um, and so you've decided, well, the Lord wants me to, to move to this new ministry. How, how, how do you, how do you break the news to a church that loves you and a church that you, of that you're leaving what's what's that like?
It was tough, man. It was tough. It was like a knife to the heart. Um, that the first day when we announced it and I called church leadership, chairman of the board of elders, president of the congregation, people who were still hard, very, very dear friends. And I'm not gonna tell you which one of 'em, but there was one of them that I just, I I'm so close to him. I love him like a brother. And when I told him he just started crying, he didn't say a word, he just started crying. And he said, I got, I go. And he hung up. And that was really tough. I bet. And, um, you know, then he called me back the next day and he said, you know, and then we had, we had, we had an actual conversation and we talked and, um, and, and we've talked several times since I've gotten here to Texas and we'll always be close. We'll always be good friends. Right. Because that, that means more than naming. But, uh, yeah, it was every one of these guys when I, when I talked that they were, it was like a knife to the heart. Mm. Um,
And, and there's really, there's really no other, I mean, if you've loved those people well, and, and they've loved you. I mean, there there's really no other way for that to feel. Right. I think of, I think of the story and, and the new Testament where, where Paul is leaving behind this church in EUS that he's built, and these men he's poured his life into. And, and he's like, it's time for me to go. And, and with tears, they see him off, um, knowing that at least because of the context, then that they might never see him again. Now, thankfully, we've got airplanes in zoom. It makes seeing people again really easy, but it sounds like a similar scenario. People, people said, look, the, the Lord is calling you away, but with tears, they send you off.
Yeah. Yeah. That was it. That was it.
So, so then we, we've got, we've got just a, a few minutes left. Tell, tell me, tell me, um, uh, what is it that you try to keep in mind as you start art and a new ministry now? So now you've made a move to Texas a place you've never lived before a place that's really different than Michigan, right? Uh, a church that's different, um, in St. John versus St. Peter and McComb. Um, how do you, what are you trying to do right now to ensure that you start well as a pastor?
Yeah. Well, I have the privilege of walking into a situation where, uh, it's a very healthy church. It's a very healthy congregation, healthy lay leadership, healthy staff, uh, pastor David Bond has done just an excellent job, getting this church into a very, very healthy place. And, um, I, I mean, I'm, I'm convinced that any fruit of ministry that the Lord allows me to pick from the top of the tree will be because I'm standing on the shoulders of a giant. Yeah. So I'm coming into an ideal situation. And so my first priority has been, I'm a, I'm a big believer in, uh, in, in, in this kind of situation, a leader needs to take all the fear out of the room, right? So I I've been telling the staff since day one, actually, before I even accept call, um, reassuring everyone. There's not gonna be big change that there's gonna be change, but it's gonna be gradual.
It's not going to come out of thin air. It's gonna be something we talk about ahead of time. There are not gonna be any surprises it's gonna be slow and gradual and comfortable. And, um, I mean, there may be sometimes when we need to get out of our comfort zones, right. That old adage, but it's not gonna be where people have to come to work wondering, okay, is the other shoe gonna drop today? That's just not gonna happen. Right. And that's been, I think really important for the staff to, to know that they are, uh, affirmed in their minutes street and what they're doing. And, uh, I'm, I'm big on, you know, surround yourself up the right people. And, uh, leadership's gonna be easy. And, and it seems like we have the right people here. So, uh, and then, uh, with the congregation as well, I mean, they know and love this man and who's retiring.
And, um, and, and I wanna reassure them as well that this there's not gonna be any huge changes. You're not gonna have to, you're not gonna come some Sunday morning. And all of a sudden, you know, everything looks different or every, you know, the service is all kind different. There's different music and there's different. I, I mean, I'm gonna have a different preaching style, but I think everyone kind of understands that people are excited to, to learn about my preaching style and get to know me and people have been really wonderful and welcoming, but there's not gonna be, you know, big changes a foot for St. John. That's just, I mean, that would be silly when you have such a healthy situation.
Yeah. Well, I mean, it's, I mean, it sounds like you're, you're entering in by just establishing trust and creating some peace and, and, and letting people know that you're there to, you're there to, to love them, serve them and not, not upend things for that, at least not right away. Right. Yeah. Well, pastor mark, woo. Geer. It's, it's, it's been great to get to know you and, and to get a little bit of an inside peak on, on the journey from one ministry to another, it's a, it's a perspective that, that, that most people rarely get. And, and we, we're looking forward to having you on the program, uh, more in the future and, and hearing from you and, and, and joining with you again, along the journey and checking in with you. Tha thanks for being on engaging truth. You're welcome. And you, yeah. And, and, and you who are listening. Thank you for joining us as well. We hope you to join us next time here on engaging truth, same time, same station. We'll talk to you then.
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